Lead around chimney brest

[H F]

I've got to say I'm getting tired of our DIY dramas at the moment.

 

After the storms yesterday, we had a leak on our ceiling and we think it has come the chimney - took some photos of the stack and it looks like the lead isn't covering the chimney properly. Any thoughts?

 

PS - I know we have to deal with the moss too.

 

[bassanclan]

The lead doesn't look great. There appears to be a hole at tge back of the first step, but it would be worth getting into the attic to have a look

[Big Jimbo]

No soakers ?, and i would have tucked that lead uner the ridge tile at the top. It looks poor i'm afraid.

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, Home Farm said:

PS - I know we have to deal with the moss too.

you don’t need to. There is no reason to remove it unless you want to stop it getting into the gutters but it will come back. 

 

5 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

No soakers ?, and i would have tucked that lead uner the ridge tile at the top. It looks poor i'm afraid.

Could be soakers under there - I’ve seen it done both ways. 

[H F]

2 hours ago, bassanclan said:

The lead doesn't look great. There appears to be a hole at tge back of the first step, but it would be worth getting into the attic to have a look

 

We don't have attic access under the chimney - so we would have to scale the roof.

 

I agree, having taken a close up photo the work looks awful.

[H F]

2 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

No soakers ?, and i would have tucked that lead uner the ridge tile at the top. It looks poor i'm afraid.

 

Looks like we're going to need a pro to come in and look at it - first few we've called said call us back at the end of January. Crazy. Wait till Jan and the water pouring in.

 

What are soakers?

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Home Farm said:

 

Looks like we're going to need a pro to come in and look at it - first few we've called said call us back at the end of January. Crazy. Wait till Jan and the water pouring in.

 

What are soakers?

Soakers are basically L shaped bits of tin or ally. You can make yhem out of lead. At the moment any water going under you lead, has reached the tiles. It will run down the tiles, and pass onto the tiles further down the roof, and eventually into the gutter. However if any of the water that has passed you lead onto your tiles goes sideways, due to a slight slope in that direction, or being pushed sideways by the wind, it will run off the side of your tiles up against the chimney and into your house. It there were soakers under the tiles, they would act as a last defence, and carry any water down to tiles below your chimney.

[Big Jimbo]

The morter in you chimney looks soaking wet. I've had it before where the bricks, and morter were taking in so much water, that regardless of the lead, etc, the chimney was soaking up the water, it was dropping downwards through the brickwork, and the heat in the room below was drawing it out, and staining the wall. To be honest, i gave it 3 good coats of Thompsons waterseal, and it was fine up to the point when i sold the place.

[joe90]

Chimneys should be built with a full lead tray but very few are (mine is, old time builder who knew his trade). I agree that the bricks look very porous and waterproofer may help but that lead looks suspect IMO.

[Temp]

My money is on a lack of lead soakers. It looks like any rain blown under the existing lead can go sideways then down the side of the chimney if there is no soaker under there. If the lead had been a few inches wider you might have gotten away without them because of the profile of the tile. In fact the other side (left hand) on the chimney might not be leaking because on that side the lead might be lapped down the tile profile.

 

Soakers go under the tiles and deflect any water going sideways out onto the tile below. They are fitted before the tiles and the stepped flashing that you can see.  Skips to about 2 mins in.. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Temp

[Temp]

PS: If you have soakers you don't really need lead on top of the tiles at the sides of the chimney. Although there will be an apron at the front. My guess is that some time in the past the lead was replaced or repaired by someone who didn't really know what they were doing.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Temp

[PeterW]

Could be a hidden gutter under the last row of tiles - can’t tell until the tiles are off and the lead is checked. 

[H F]

Thank you all for your invaluable info and insights.

 

I think we need to get up there and look for ourselves, close up and with it. And the moss. 
 

Can you please recommend a high quality roof ladder... it’s about 10m from ground to gutter... then we need to beyond that.

[Big Jimbo]

59 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Chimneys should be built with a full lead tray but very few are (mine is, old time builder who knew his trade). I agree that the bricks look very porous and waterproofer may help but that lead looks suspect IMO.

Joe, was he 110. i'm with you, but i can't remember the last time i saw that done.

[Oz07]

Seen full lead tray on some dummy chimneys on a job last year. Couldn't work out why they didn't use dpc myself. These still leaked through brickwork last winter anyway. Builder sealed with water seal and fixed problem

[Big Jimbo]

9 minutes ago, Home Farm said:

Thank you all for your invaluable info and insights.

 

I think we need to get up there and look for ourselves, close up and with it. And the moss. 
 

Can you please recommend a high quality roof ladder... it’s about 10m from ground to gutter... then we need to beyond that.

Be so careful. That is seriously high. Do ask yourself the question is it worth the risk. I know you want to get it sorted, but perhaps a few hundred quid to a local roofer might be a safer option. I know you are struggling to find one. There is usually a local pub, where the local builders meet for a tall tales session on a Friday afternoon. I'd find that, and start chatting to a few of them. You would'nt believe the power of a phone call from a builder to a roofer that he uses all the time. Especially if you have just bought him a pint.

[joe90]

25 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Joe, was he 110. i'm with you, but i can't remember the last time i saw that done.

 

No, 58. But alas had a stroke after finishing my place, won’t ever work again but planning volunteering at a local college.

[Onoff]

45 minutes ago, Home Farm said:

Thank you all for your invaluable info and insights.

 

I think we need to get up there and look for ourselves, close up and with it. And the moss. 
 

Can you please recommend a high quality roof ladder... it’s about 10m from ground to gutter... then we need to beyond that.

 

You can get combined wheels/hooks that clip onto a normal ladder:

 

 

[Temp]

6 hours ago, Home Farm said:

it’s about 10m from ground to gutter.

 

Yikes. Is it a three storey house? Wouldn't get me that high on a ladder (and I used to fly gliders). I'd be using a scaffolding tower then a roof lader.

[H F]

9 hours ago, Temp said:

 

Yikes. Is it a three storey house? Wouldn't get me that high on a ladder (and I used to fly gliders). I'd be using a scaffolding tower then a roof lader.

Yes, it’s pretty high. Do they sell home scaffolding towers? That could he helpful.

[PeterW]

You would need a 6x4 tower to be comfortable and that would be around £2k inc VAT for a decent one. Hiring that size is going to be upward of £200 a week, and then you have roof ladders on top. 
 

TBH I would be getting the professionals in - you don’t get a second chance if you slip from that sort of height. 

[Temp]

+1 to getting someone in.

 

I hire towers for outside painting as I don't have storage space and rental towers are usually decent quality. Shop around as rates vary a lot, haggle. Some places have good weekend rates. Remember to ask for a price Inc vat and delivery/collection.

 

Don't underestimate how much work it is to erect a tower and get the platforms into place. They are awkward and heavy. Definitely a two man job. 

[Ed Davies]

I have one of these towers (the 7m version): https://www.aluminium-scaffoldtowers.co.uk/diy-access-tower-sale/

 

7m refers to the working height, the height you can reach so 2m above the highest platform height (5m) and the highest handrail height (6m). For lower heights it's very useful and I'm OK on it at the maximum height but very nervous of handling even quite small sheets unless it's dead calm and would not be even slightly interested in silly tricks like pushing ladders around and climbing on and off them.

 

If your gutter really is 10m up then something quite a bit more beefy is called for, ideally attached to the wall (tied off through a window or something). As above, DIY might not be the best option.

[ProDave]

I paid less than £2K for all my Kwikstage scaffold and I used a small amount of it to get up to the gable end to install my flue pipe

 

The very top platform is about 7 metres above the ground.

[ProDave]

15 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

You can get combined wheels/hooks that clip onto a normal ladder:

 

 

That's what I have. But few ordinary ladders are long enough to be used as a roof ladder.  See my picture in the above post.  The "roof ladder" does not reach the bottom of the roof so I need another ladder to get up to the roof ladder.  Only works if you have scaffold to work from.