SteamyTea Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, Cpd said: Yup time to go back to basics Too true. Just because something is possible does not mean it is needed. I am not looking forward to when the FM radio system gets discontinued, though I felt the same about AM not broadcasting my favourite station. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Mr Punter said: I just got an email from Sonos to say that from May a couple of my products will be classed as "legacy" and I can either "Trade Up" with a 30% discount or get no further support. Apparently when you trade up they brick the old device. Cheeky American rip-off b*******s! Previous hi-fi lasted 25 years. I got that email as well. I've had my Sonos for over ten years and I've never updated the software and it still works ok. I've no intention of "Trading Up" and I don't want their support so I'll just carry on as before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I think my stuff is about 6 years old. Sonos are a bunch of crooks and I would never buy their products again. I hope their crappy business fails horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 49 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: I got that email as well. I've had my Sonos for over ten years and I've never updated the software and it still works ok. I've no intention of "Trading Up" and I don't want their support so I'll just carry on as before. I do wonder about a lot of these “tech” based products, how long will they last before they get bricked. Will we ever see old Tesla’s on the road, or will they be killed off as they will no longer be supported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 This thread confirms my view that basing my home audio system on a 1990's hifi unit and a Raspbery Pi Music box was a sound choice. (excuse the terrible pun) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Triassic said: Will we ever see old Tesla’s on the road, or will they be killed off as they will no longer be supported? I think there is legislation that cars have to be supported for 12 years (not 100% sure on the years). But history has shown us that cars have been supported for decades. @Onoff can still get bits for the Pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Does anyone have experience of Denon amps? I'm tentatively looking at the DNp-800NE as a substitute for the sonos amps that had originally been planned to go into the loft to then be hard wired into ceiling speakers. Certainly, the price is much more attractive and it seems to do the same thing. Scratch that - didn't realise that it's not an amp and receiver combined. Edited January 22, 2020 by vivienz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just watching Demon Seed. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075931/ We have had this warning in 1973, though Julie Christie did not film it till 1977. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Sonos now trying (not very hard) to back pedal just a little bit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51231363 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Says a lot that they still thought of the idea of screwing existing customers though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 We have 2x Play 1s, a Play 5 and 2x Sonos Connects. I think the Play 5 is affected by the announcement, our Connects are post 2015 and so should not be affected (they were still laughably expensive for what they do). The reality is that this affects anything with computing built it. Indeed someone very fairly pointed out in a discussion re this on another site that smart TVs normally lose support after 2 years. If you have something doing more and more in software, for example receiving voice commands, then eventually it will not be powerful enough for the latest features and something will have to give. Factor this is before paying large amounts of money for a fridge/TV/washing machine/phone/car where the core functions will probably keep working but the nifty functions you paid a big premium for will either not work or be antiquated in 5 years time. Thus with this kind of device it is better to separate the computing aspect from the physical aspect if you can. For Smart TVs, much as it is neat to have the functionality built in, I decided that it is better to rely on FireTVs for older TVs. They only cost £25 when there is a sale on so if every 4 or 5 years they are too slow and need replaced then it is pretty cheap. We had a Samsung plasma TV where the Amazon app stopped working after only 2 years as they stopped updating it.The difference between Samsung and Sonos is Sonos have kept updating products for much longer and were honest enough to admit they will eventually have to stop. Samsung and LG just give up supporting devices often very quickly. Despite the sceptics, Apple generally supports phones for 5 years and recent updates do not seem designed to brick your phone. Most Android phones only guarantee support for 2 years. Even then they will work of course, just stop getting updates. You really cannot do much about this when processing power is increasing rapidly, funnily enough as the steps between models get smaller as has happened in PCs, devices should last longer as the older devices won't be at such a performance disadvantage. Anyway despite the initial outrage I don't think Sonos can do much about this and it is really a fact of life with devices including computing power. Where they might be blamed is that they were historically slow to update products so products on sale not that long ago are included in this as they were very old products when they were still being sold. We have connected our Sonos system to Alexas and it works well and easily. Indeed since putting an Alexa in the kitchen it gets a lot of use - Sonos, timers, alarms, weather, calls, football scores etc. I switched from using Deezer to Amazon music as it is somewhat cheaper, however the price increases substantially if you want to use it on more than one device at a time. Ideally I would like a music system like the FireTV plus TV system. This is just more fiddly to do in the music world than the TV world as you need something that outputs the audio, plus an amp plus speakers (or powered speakers). Google used to make the Chromecast Music to do this but stopped. Today the easy option might be to buy an Amazon Echo Dot and use the 3.5mm output to connect to an amp and speakers but I am not sure what quality this would provide. Also the amp and speakers would have to be left on all the time as the Echo ceases to use its own speaker connected in this way. My mate swears by just using his Amazon Echo speaker that he bought. Looking at it today, Echo speakers did not exist when I started buying Sonos stuff, an Amazon Echo 3 costs £90 and £60 in the sales. They can be paired for stereo. Apparently they don't sound quite as good as a Sonos One, but then they are half the price. You can buy an Echo Studio for a similar price and similar quality. At £60 a speaker frankly if they only lasted 5 years I wouldn't care anymore. The music service costs more than the speakers do. It has to be a very tempting if not very environmentally proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Dropping support is one thing, bricking your old kit that you own is a different matter though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I think there is a bit of confusion there. If you opt for the 30% off a new device when trading in the old kit then they apparently brick the trade in. This, it has been pointed out, is very environmentally unfriendly as it would be better to sell the old device and keep using it. When they stop support devices will still work. However, at some point to connect to the latest Spotify, Amazon etc update they will need to be updated and will then not work for that service. If you have your own music stored at home they should work pretty much indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 43 minutes ago, AliG said: Indeed someone very fairly pointed out in a discussion re this on another site that smart TVs normally lose support after 2 years. Fair, but I think most TVs revert fairly elegantly to being a dumb-TV at the point of smart obsolescence. In particular the TV tuner still works and they tend to have an HDMI input or two that makes an easy path to adding an external up-to-date set top smart box. The issue with Sonos is the smarts is so deeply embedded in it, when that gets turned off, it's not clear how well you can use the residual amplifier/speaker in it at all. e.g. a £600 Sonos Amp has an HDMI in, but will that even work in future when they withdraw support for this device? If it does, how will one adjust the volume control? Will the amp still be usable as the surround channel for a 5.1 system? etc. Yeah, a £60 speaker is one thing but it's the hard core customers that have invested £1000s that they're pissing off the most. (As they predicted they would, in their last financial statement) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 On 03/12/2019 at 07:48, joth said: Full disclosure: I only bought into Sonos recently to try out, largely due to this thread, so still a novice and have not integrated voice control. The Sonos Amp I bought is DOA and waiting for an RMA authorization to send back, so I'm hoping for some magic when it is replaced LOL well it was just over a month later that that magic truly arrived! After avoiding Sonos all my life for fear of their walled garden, I was persuaded into dabbling in it a couple months ago, and I'm now back pedaling mightily. Current thoughts are back to original plan: just put wires into rooms, leave amps and speakers for a future project. But if/when I do come to it my current favourite is to use an Anthem MDX-16 that I've just learnt about: an 8 room zone amplifier, and some separate box for the streaming services -- as the MDX has several digital spdif inputs, the streaming player can be as simple & disposable as a raspberry pi or two, or a chromecast audio. While the MDX has IP connectivity, it has no cloud component so no chance to be remote-bricked. (And, can always be controlled via RS232 or IR if IP is not your cup of tea CP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I can see that people would be upset if they have spent a lot of money, I just don't think they are being realistic. The place I would bash Sonos is that some of these devices stayed on sale too long so they appear to have support ending quickly. The Play 5 was announced in 2009 and went on sale in 2010. It is a 10 year old device this year, it is no surprise that support is ending. The Gen 2 came out in November 2015, but I think people still sold the Gen 1 all the way through 2016, so if you bought one then you would rightly be upset. It is extraordinary they hadn't updated it for that long. I suspect they will update devices more often in the future. People won't have been thinking of it as an end of line device in 2016 and it wasn't priced as one. There have been many discussions on here about the merits of installing thousands of pounds worth of smart tech into your house when there is a good chance that it will stop working at some point in the future. As I said, if Sonos was still just used for streaming your own music, I think you could use it indefinitely. This was what it was originally designed for, they were not envisaging Spotify at the time. However, now that they have made it an internet connected application driven product then as technology advances it is going to have a more finite life in this function. I am all for bashing companies with their unreasonable demands etc. I had a Dyson V6 that barely lasted two years before the battery gave out.That is pathetic. The batteries are just not up to the job, I replaced it but it was never the same. I had an expensive HP laptop that was as good as junk after 3 years, the power supply broke after 18 months and they absolutely refused to do anything about it and the screen broke after 3 years, but at that point it was so miserable to use I gave up anyway. I moved over to a MacBook Pro which was a bit more expensive but still works almost like new 6 years later. I think 6 or 7 years is the realistic time for supporting computing devices. So when I spend money on something like that I would calculate the cost over the useable life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I've now received an apologetic email from Sonos stating they will not be bricking legacy products. We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward: First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honour that investment for as long as possible. Whilst legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience. Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, whilst legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalising details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks. Whilst we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the Trade Up programme we launched for our loyal customers. Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day. If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us. Sincerely, Patrick Patrick Spence CEO, Sonos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) Has this updated - what do I buy now? Sonos are not on the list. ? Does an Amazon Studio beat 2 x Amazon Echo Gen 3 ? Opinions welcome. I think I will start with a single Amazon Echo G3. Beyond that, I am drawn to the OontZ Angle 3 Ultra for the next room if they turn out to work together. Ferdinand Edited February 16, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) An Amazon Echo Gen 3 is on order. They seem to be popular - delivery date is 16 March, and I am in Amazon Prime. China Syndrome? Edited February 17, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 Update to this thread. I now have the Amazon Echo Gen 3 and two supplementary speakers from Tribit. Both are Bluetooth outdoor speakers (ie very bathroom safe) and excellent value. 1 - A MaxSound Plus 24W and about £40. Good across the range for a small speaker. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tribit-MaxSound-Bluetooth-Exceptional-Waterproof/dp/B07LGKLFFW 2 - An XSound Go. 12W. About £30. Even smaller. Linear across the range. Good for treble eg Sax Jazz or Female Vocal. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Speakers-Tribit-Portable-Waterproof/dp/B078S4P3J9 I find the easiest way to use one is to keep both off, turn one on and yell "Connect my Speaker" at Alexa, even from a couple of rooms away. Next job: connect the 3 Smart TVs to Alexa. F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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