Conor Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Ok. I know it's probably my third or fourth post on this. Bare with me, trying to finalise budget for heating. I can either spend £4k on a Mitsubishi, Panasonic or LG ~5Kw monbloc. OR get what looks like the same kind of thing from eBay for £1k delivered. What sort of compromises and downsides would I expect for my £3k saving? Noise? Reliability? Rusting? E.g.... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-HOME-AIR-SOURCE-AIR-TO-WATER-HEAT-PUMP-HEATER-5KW-RRP-1299/352795450340?hash=item52243f5be4%3Ag%3AJF8AAMXQU6tQ9u81&LH_BIN=1 (My hesitancy to spend more than is based on the fact that our heating demand will be minimal, and solar PV / E7 can be used for DHW, meaning the ASHP I install may never be needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I would be 99% certain that one does not have an inverter. I am pretty sure we discussed that model before and a previous advert had a picture of the electronics with a big motor start capacitor. The disadvantage of direct drive is the compressor is working all or nothing. So it will likely be noisier, will have a high start up current which your DNO won't like and may cause a noticable dip to your lighting when it starts, and it won't be able to modulate it's output temperature as well. I would keep looking until you find one that is definitely inverter drive and says so. Bargains do come up from time to time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Think I looked at that unit also and just seemed to be too cheap to be a decent unit. The seller's name put me off even more. Personally, I would be looking at a known make that has an inverter, even if it is 2nd hand. Anyway, to be slightly more useful, have a look here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Just bumping this thread as I'm about to hit the button on my ASHP. 9kw unit required with the ability to do cooling. Must be an inverter model. I was drawn to the relative value of the new Samsung 6 Gen units. In particular the now 7 year warranty as standard.........Well of course that is until you read the small print which basically says "12 month warranty only unless installed by a Samsung registered installer" and of course all the registered installers are MCS accredited and thus the price ends up being doubled by that fact alone! ☹️ Has anyone managed to find one either cheap OR a brand name without a rip off warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Another question. Is there a simple way to tell if it is inverter driven? Just spotted this one: https://coolenergyshop.com/collections/pro-range-heat-pumps/products/cool-energy-pro-range-8-41kw-stainless-heat-pump-model-ce-h8 I think we've discussed Cool Energy on this forum before with somewhat mixed views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 It's unlikely that anyone would forget to advertise a unit as being inverter... Cool energy do some BIG boiler-replacement inverters, and told me they have no intention of offering smaller units as inverter. But low starting currents and a range of outputs (eg Cool Energy's 6-18.7), would be a hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 these guys are worth a chat, they re-sell the L&C unit and have an optional paid extended warranty package https://www.peakenergyproducts.co.uk/monobloc-ashp-s Andrew is the contact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, dpmiller said: these guys are worth a chat, they re-sell the L&C unit and have an optional paid extended warranty package https://www.peakenergyproducts.co.uk/monobloc-ashp-s Andrew is the contact. Didn’t realise they were still around - probably one of the first companies that did the whole packaged tank system from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) @Conor, @Barney12. @oranjeboom. I’m also in the market for an ASH pump. How is the search for a competitively priced unit going? Maybe a bulk buy would save us some money? Anyone else spotted or been offered any good ASHP deals recently? Edited October 29, 2019 by Triassic Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 53 minutes ago, Triassic said: @Conor, @Barney12. @oranjeboom. I’m also in the market for an ASH pump. How is the search for a competitively priced unit going? Maybe a bulk buy would save us some money? Anyone else spotted or been offered any good ASHP deals recently? ive not had chance to call @dpmiller recommendation above. But other than that I’ve seen nothing which represents a good deal. eBay seems to be full of questionable Chinese units and overpriced second hand units. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Triassic said: @Conor, @Barney12. @oranjeboom. I’m also in the market for an ASH pump. How is the search for a competitively priced unit going? Maybe a bulk buy would save us some money? Anyone else spotted or been offered any good ASHP deals recently? I've found a local place that does Mitsubishi 5kw ecodans for £2.2k delivered. I'm 6 months from needing to buy. http://www.totalfloorheating.com/more/on/details/00331 Edited October 29, 2019 by Conor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, Conor said: I've found a local place that does Mitsubishi 5kw ecodans for £2.2k delivered. I'm 6 months from needing to buy. does that include the internal control unit too ..? That’s the crunch point normally as they can be £4-500 and on some ASHP you need that as without it there is no interface to operate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PeterW said: does that include the internal control unit too ..? That’s the crunch point normally as they can be £4-500 and on some ASHP you need that as without it there is no interface to operate them. http://www.totalfloorheating.com/more/on/details/00331 I've been meaning to call down to them and get an all in price for the ashp, manifolds, cylinder, ufh system etc. I will report back. Edited October 29, 2019 by Conor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 knowing how much Chinese input there is even in the expensive stuff, I'd say a brand name is costing rather a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 24/09/2019 at 14:41, Conor said: My hesitancy to spend more than is based on the fact that our heating demand will be minimal, and solar PV / E7 can be used for DHW, meaning the ASHP I install may never be needed) If this is the case why not instal a Willis heater fir a minimal amount but make sure you have all the pipework in place IF you do need an ASHP. I would be loathed to spend money on something you never use? Ask @TerryE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bissoejosh Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Triassic said: @Conor, @Barney12. @oranjeboom. I’m also in the market for an ASH pump. How is the search for a competitively priced unit going? Maybe a bulk buy would save us some money? Anyone else spotted or been offered any good ASHP deals recently? Not really, I'm also looking to buy at the moment. @Barney12 I messaged coolenergy re the inverter driven models... "The ‘pro range’ are not inverter models no. But we do have inverter models available CE-iH6-18 and CE-iH10-25." https://coolenergyshop.com/products/cool-energy-inverter-6-18-7kw-stainless-heat-pump-ce-ih6-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, bissoejosh said: Not really, I'm also looking to buy at the moment. @Barney12 I messaged coolenergy re the inverter driven models... "The ‘pro range’ are not inverter models no. But we do have inverter models available CE-iH6-18 and CE-iH10-25." https://coolenergyshop.com/products/cool-energy-inverter-6-18-7kw-stainless-heat-pump-ce-ih6-18 18 and 25kW are a bit on the big side for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bissoejosh Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) Forgot to add I got a price on a new Daikin 5KW with all the controllers etc £2287 + VAT if that helps anyone (not sure if that included delivery). 7KW was £2574 + VAT. To add I just asked the supplier for a discount based on a 3-5 unit group order. Another 2% off list price so £2230 for the 5KW. Edited October 29, 2019 by bissoejosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 24/09/2019 at 14:41, Conor said: (My hesitancy to spend more than is based on the fact that our heating demand will be minimal, and solar PV / E7 can be used for DHW, meaning the ASHP I install may never be needed) I’m also one of those hesitating about the need for an ASHP. I’d also be interested to hear from Jeremy and @TerryE on their recent heating and hot water experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 As I have on previous posts, based on our current year-round heating costs, I estimate that using an ASHP instead of a Willis would save me about £400-500 / year in electricity bills because we don't have PV, so that's a 5-7 year break-even for a decent ASHP if I do the fitting myself. There's no way we could make an economic case if we had to use an approved installer. We don't anticipate any change in our occupancy experience as we have absolutely no issues with our current Wills/SunAmp configuration. So very marginal in terms of heating. The one win would be the ability to run the ASHP in cooling mode in hot spells in July/Aug, and that could tip the balance for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bissoejosh Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I really like the all electric idea but I'm concerned as we don't have PV how much it will hinder our SAP to the point we may struggle to pass regs due to the unfair penalty on electric solutions. I need to dig the software out again and re run. Did you have any issues with this @TerryE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Conor said: http://www.totalfloorheating.com/more/on/details/00331 I've been meaning to call down to them and get an all in price for the ashp, manifolds, cylinder, ufh system etc. I will report back. Again buyer beware. Note this text from their website: "All Mitsubushi Ecodan products must be installed and commissioned by a Mitsubushi trained installer to comply with the Mitsubushi warranty" So in short; you're buying a £2k+ box with zero warranty. I've now emailed three suppliers of "branded" ASHP's. One replied stating "no warranty" as above. Two others simply haven't replied (which makes me think its the same answer!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Triassic said: 18 and 25kW are a bit on the big side for me. Ditto. Another company off the list The entire ASHP market is feeling like a closed shop! Edited October 29, 2019 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 In addition to the heating pay back time for an ASHP, over something simple like a Willis heater or two, there's also the value of the cooling an ASHP can provide. We find this invaluable, and I think our ASHP spends more time in cooling mode than it does in heating mode. Hard to put a value on this, but I think if we didn't have the ASHP I would have had to install another air con unit to cool the downstairs of the house, particularly during that hot spell we had a few months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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