Working platform suggestions - internal blockwork

[Digmixfill]

I'm putting up the inner leaf inside my barn. I've almost done as much blockwork as I can without using a lift.

I'm looking for suggestions for a platform.

The longest wall is 4m and i'm thinking that I'll need to lay blocks to around the 2.5m mark from the platform. After that i install floor joists and then move platform up to the next floor - happy to be steered otherwise?

 

What would you recommend I take a look at for a platform?

[ProDave]

Something as simple as planks and trestles would do that.

[Digmixfill]

I had spotted these and wondered if they'd be up to the job with planks.

adjustable trestle

 

 

They'd come in useful for other stuff too.

[Carrerahill]

21 minutes ago, Digmixfill said:

I had spotted these and wondered if they'd be up to the job with planks.

adjustable trestle

 

 

They'd come in useful for other stuff too.

I would not trust those to stand on let alone anything else, i.e. load with the weight of some blocks and mortar.

 

My builder is using something like these for the lower bits:

 

https://www.toptower.co.uk/builders-trestles-swivel-leg.html

 

I would say his a much more heavy duty.

 

A small scaffold could also be bought and made up in 2 sections with boards inbetween.

 

http://www.scaffold-towers.net/summit_size.php

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Carrerahill

[Conor]

One of those aluminium working platforms on wheels would be perfect. You need edge protection when working at height, trestles are not safe.

[epsilonGreedy]

3 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

I would not trust those to stand on let alone anything else, i.e. load with the weight of some blocks and mortar.

 

My builder is using something like these for the lower bits:

 

https://www.toptower.co.uk/builders-trestles-swivel-leg.html

 

 

Agreed, that Draper trestle looks like a piece of over-designed toy town Meccano.

 

I am using an equivalent to the proper builder's trestle linked in the quote and they feel sturdy when laying blocks at 2m. I would not be happy laying blocks much higher on a trestle platform.

 

The OP might want to review my thread on a similar subject:

 

  

[Russell griffiths]

A tower is no good for block work as you want to run the whole length of wall not just a 2.4m bit. 

Builders bandstands and planks, board out the whole length in one go, building up to 2.5m will mean you only need them 1.2 high, if worried you can get a hand rail for them, look on e bay lots of second hand on there. 

If you don’t mind spending a bit and recover at the end buy some kwickstage scaffolding and board out your entire run of block work, saves getting up and down, load blocks one end and carry around at working height. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Russell griffiths

[epsilonGreedy]

4 hours ago, Digmixfill said:

What would you recommend I take a look at for a platform?

 

 

I was in a similar position and have found two solutions.

1. My self build neighbour has loaned 4 large trestles which is about right for a 4m run. The platform is 4 planks wide which feels secure. I am using these on the minimum height setting at the moment and would not consider them safe at the max extension height. If I were to buy my own it would be the medium model on offer at that large mail order scaffolding business near Hull. I will need to buy some shorter planks soon because the 3.9m ones on loan mean I cannot use the trestles on shorter walls.
2. My second solution came from observing a pro brickie team on a neighbouring plot. They used upturned milk creates for the first course of blocks beyond floor reach these were easy to kick along a block & beam floor. In place of a milk crate I purchased one of these which offers a 2 block gain in height say up to 8 blocks high depending on the weight of the blocks = Youngman Large Professional Platform sold by Amazon.

 

Edit: Here is the link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Youngman-312898-Large-Professional-Platform/dp/B005CP592C

Edited September 24, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[epsilonGreedy]

17 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you don’t mind spending a bit and recover at the end buy some kwickstage scaffolding and board out your entire run of block work, saves getting up and down, load blocks one end and carry around at working height. 

 

 

This is a good point. How long does it take an amateur brickie to lay 9 blocks along a 4m run? 50 minutes possibly.

 

Moving the trestle staging to the next 4m run might take 20 minutes all while the mortar mix is going off.

[Carrerahill]

28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

A tower is no good for block work as you want to run the whole length of wall not just a 2.4m bit. 

 

Two single lifts, with planks between is how the guys are working here - they just drag or move (takes about 6 minutes if they must dismantle and rebuild) the towers when they want to move. I also built them a nifty 2x6 mid section support so they can span near on 14' on one section using some 2x8's.

 

They have about 4 isolated pieces of scaffolding up just now and the quick-stage towers sort of move about. I know it is not ideal but it works. 

[SteamyTea]

I have a scaffold tower you can rent, pickup and return to Cornwall, bargain at 50 quid a month.  Special members price.

Edited September 24, 2019 by SteamyTea

[Declan52]

There is nothing wrong with using trestles as long as you understand their limits. They have no edge protection built in so unless you add this you can fall of pretty easily, been there and got that t shirt a few times. If your going to be loading up the platform then keep all the blocks stacked over the trestle and I mean a proper builders trestle not that you thing in the original post. 

52 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

This is a good point. How long does it take an amateur brickie to lay 9 blocks along a 4m run? 50 minutes possibly.

 

Moving the trestle staging to the next 4m run might take 20 minutes all while the mortar mix is going off.

A smart brickie wouldn't have motar out of the mixer going off when you are moving the trestles.

If it takes you 50 mins to lay 9 blocks then you seriously need to stop looking at Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and buildhub, put your phone away and lift the trowel. 9 blocks for even an amateur should take no more than 9 mins and that's even taking the piss. 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

25 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

A smart brickie wouldn't have motar out of the mixer going off when you are moving the trestles.

 

 

Exactly my point. If the OP purchases a just 4m run of trestle staging he is going to be shuffling it around a lot and sometimes when not convenient hence a longer run of conventional scaffolding might payoff in the longrun.

 

30 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

If it takes you 50 mins to lay 9 blocks then you seriously need to stop looking at Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and buildhub, put your phone away and lift the trowel. 9 blocks for even an amateur should take no more than 9 mins and that's even taking the piss. 

 

 

Having been involved in self build for a year now I have learned that brickie lay rates are as fanciful as the size of the fish that got away or the height of the big wave a yachtsman encountered in a gale.

 

If an amateur self build brickie would lay blocks at 1 per minute for 6 hours on a slow day x 47 weeks per year and given a lowish rate of £1.30 a block, then he should turn pro because an annual salary of £109k a year beckons.

[Digmixfill]

Thanks for all the info so far.

I suspect i'll go for a combination of trestles and small tower sections.

The trestles at toptower are rated at 450kg and the draper one I in my original post only 150kg. Not up to it.

 

The 9 blocks an hour probably isn't too far off. I spend an age making sure the end blocks are square, level and to gauge. I'm at the stage where I still check everything far too many times and I remove and re-lay many blocks because i'm not happy with them. Returns and reveals also take me an age. Fortunately i'm not on the clock, so it all takes as long as it takes.

[Declan52]

38 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Exactly my point. If the OP purchases a just 4m run of trestle staging he is going to be shuffling it around a lot and sometimes when not convenient hence a longer run of conventional scaffolding might payoff in the longrun.

 

 

Having been involved in self build for a year now I have learned that brickie lay rates are as fanciful as the size of the fish that got away or the height of the big wave a yachtsman encountered in a gale.

 

If an amateur self build brickie would lay blocks at 1 per minute for 6 hours on a slow day x 47 weeks per year and given a lowish rate of £1.30 a block, then he should turn pro because an annual salary of £109k a year beckons.

A 4 meter run is just 3 trestles and 8 8ft plank, that's all he needs as 4m is the longest wall so why would he need to go longer. Takes a few mins to lift each trestle and 2 planks at a time and move to the next wall. 

You have never worked on a building site and watched how a full time squad work. They build flat out each hour, every day every week. Your always carrying money over to cover for lost days due to bad weather. It's how it's done. 

You asked how long it would take to build 9 blocks and I told you. You cant extrapolate that up at a block a min due to everything else that needs to be done.When your building block walls each day you aren't just building blocks. Your building your corners outside skin and inside if you haven't internal profiles, your setting your line, you have wall ties to put in and insulation if that needs done plus not forgetting to keep the wall plumb and clean on both sides. All your openings need cut blocks and then all need plumbed. Your lifting 4m 9*4 concrete lintels and matching 6" cills because everyone likes big windows except the poor buggers lifting these very heavy bits. Believe me once you have lifted a few of these first thing in the morning your not exactly bouncing out of you skin with energy. All of these things mentioned all take time some lots of time.

Plus don't forget that if it's a 2&1 squad then both brickies have to also build enough to cover the labourers wage. They make his wage and the labourer makes theirs. If he hasn't the scaffold ready with blocks/ bricks and mortar ready then no one makes any money.

[epsilonGreedy]

5 minutes ago, Digmixfill said:

The 9 blocks an hour probably isn't too far off. I spend an age making sure the end blocks are square, level and to gauge. I'm at the stage where I still check everything far too many times and I remove and re-lay many blocks because i'm not happy with them. Returns and reveals also take me an age. Fortunately i'm not on the clock, so it all takes as long as it takes.

 

This all sounds very familiar but to continue, when relaying that block I realize the original mortar bed has firmed up too much which means scraping off the mortar to relay fresh mortar, 5 minutes later on the 3rd block lay and after 15 leveling taps and 10 spirit level double checks you smile at the perfect 3D alignment, then I see the wall tie still sitting on the adjacent block mocking "you forgot me again". 

[ToughButterCup]

11 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

[...] I see the wall tie still sitting on the adjacent block mocking "you forgot me again". 

 

Experience. Hard won, innit?

Happens to me every single damn day. Every bloody one of them. 

[Digmixfill]

1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

when relaying that block I realize the original mortar bed has firmed up too much which means scraping off the mortar to relay fresh mortar

This goes without saying

 

I'm not doing too bad with the ties so far. I've got to mark out, drill and resin them in. Lots of chalk marks on the wall - missing mark is the tell tale.

 

Do builders trestles take 4 boards across the top of them?

 

[epsilonGreedy]

10 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

A 4 meter run is just 3 trestles and 8 8ft plank, that's all he needs as 4m is the longest wall so why would he need to go longer.

 

 

I think we are going around in circles. 4m is 9 blocks which implies moving the staging every hour or so.

 

8ft planks would be more flexible, the pro brickie team next door were using 13ft planks for some reason before their kit was loaned to me.

 

16 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

You asked how long it would take to build 9 blocks and I told you.

 

 

Actually you commented on how awfully slow 9 block per 50 minutes was. No disagreement with that but my fellow self build amateur in this thread expects a similar rate.

 

As to your lengthy description of what slows down the overall block lay rate, all I can say is yes yes been there. The solo amateur brickie has to shift sand, select blocks, shift the chipped ones to a pile reserved for cutting, dust off the good ones before laying out, mix up Fab at the prescribed amount, measure & cut, hop off the staging when too many ties have dived off the mortar bed for fresh supplies.

 

All in all I think the OP will face shifting the staging one an hour on a peak productive day.

[Declan52]

28 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I think we are going around in circles. 4m is 9 blocks which implies moving the staging every hour or so.

 

8ft planks would be more flexible, the pro brickie team next door were using 13ft planks for some reason before their kit was loaned to me.

 

 

Actually you commented on how awfully slow 9 block per 50 minutes was. No disagreement with that but my fellow self build amateur in this thread expects a similar rate.

 

As to your lengthy description of what slows down the overall block lay rate, all I can say is yes yes been there. The solo amateur brickie has to shift sand, select blocks, shift the chipped ones to a pile reserved for cutting, dust off the good ones before laying out, mix up Fab at the prescribed amount, measure & cut, hop off the staging when too many ties have dived off the mortar bed for fresh supplies.

 

All in all I think the OP will face shifting the staging one an hour on a peak productive day.

Why would he be moving the scaffolding every hr??

Going by his 2.5m height he would be safer building it 6 course high from the ground then the other 5 from the scaffolding. Lifting blocks upto the 7th course is where it can all go wrong so better to leave that bit out.

Your going slow problem is due to either one of 2 things. If the motar is skining over then your mix isn't right or you're bedded to much ahead of yourself. If your tapping away like a Morse code operator then your bedding isn't right. The weight of the block should take you to the line with a tap depending on how level you set the block down. You should only use the level to check for plumb every 2/3 course not every block. 

[Temp]

I have some of those Draper Trestles for wood working. They are quite strong but personally I wouldn't use trestles and planks. Depending on the height I'd either go for something like an indoor grade tower or "scaffolding ladder platform" perhaps this sort of thing..

 

https://www.midlandladders.com/folding-work-platforms/ladder-scaffold-system

 

 

 

[Digmixfill]

I'm mortally afraid I will screw up and end up with un-straight walls.

I check the face of every block.

I place a level diagonally across the face and the previous rows.

I don't put enough mortar down.

I put too much mortar down.

Same with the perps.

 

I'm only doing a few hours a day block laying, so it will take me quite some time to gain the confidence and techniques of a professional. I will probably have it nailed shortly before I finish.

 

[Digmixfill]

5 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

 

 

I have come across these type of things. They looked promising but I haven't spotted one that had a decent sized platform.

[epsilonGreedy]

3 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

If your tapping away like a Morse code operator then your bedding isn't right.

 

 

That is an apt description of me laying blocks ?

 

5 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

You should only use the level to check for plumb every 2/3 course not every block. 

 

 

My internal garage block wall will not be dry lined so I am aware it will be a long term finish open to visitor scrutiny.

 

7 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

or you're bedded to much ahead of yourself.

 

 

I bed per single block out of concern that anything further ahead will start to dry before the first block has received its Morse-code admonishment.

 

10 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Why would he be moving the scaffolding every hr??

Going by his 2.5m height he would be safer building it 6 course high from the ground then the other 5 from the scaffolding. Lifting blocks upto the 7th course is where it can all go wrong so better to leave that bit out.

 

 

I agree that lifting blocks to a 7th course is not recommended, for the health of elbow or shoulder joints in my case. I don't lift my 15kg blocks above a 4th course now I have my 50cm high kick-along 60cm x 60cm mini platform as linked to above. This has been my best equipment purchase to date, shame it was after the elbow steroid injection.

 

So far I have waited 24 hours for each course to set before laying the next. My concern is that by the time I am ready to return 4m to the other end of the staging the mortar of the lower course will be setting and taps applied to the next course will wobble and break the mortar bond of blocks below.

 

Not sure what the OP's approach is on this subject.

[ProDave]

56 minutes ago, Digmixfill said:

 

Do builders trestles take 4 boards across the top of them?

 

Yes, well at least mine do.

 

I think the whole point about planks and trestles is they are for low working heights so the dangers are not as acute as say a high scaffold tower without a handrail.