Old cess pool - decommissioning?

[Gooman]

We're in the process of buying a new home. The house (and the one next door) were built in the late 60's/early 70's and it seems (from the deeds) originally had a cess pool before they were connected to mains sewerage.

 

The plan on the deeds notes the location and that it was/is 10ft x 10ft x 6ft6in. 

 

Obviously, we want to satisfy ourselves as to its condition, mainly from a liability point of view. We're thinking that:

1. We need to check that it was properly decommissioned by filling it with sand and/or gravel to prevent any collapse
2. If not, we also need to check that it's empty

 

Back-of-an-envelope calculations suggest it might need 2.5 tonnes of gravel to fill it, at a cost of around £2,500 (plus emptying if needed). Clearly something we'd want to be dealt with or accounted for in the price.

 

Do you think these concerns are reasonable? Anything else we should be wary of?

 

[nod]

The cost of filling it sounds high 

Though 2.5 tons doesn’t sound that much 

We had two old tanks to fill 

Both 2 mtr circular and 6 mtr deep 

We filled both with concrete I can’t remember the cost But only took a couple of hours 

If you have good access it should take long to back a lorry up and tip 10 ton in and see how far you are off levelling I’d wouldn’t use sand I would use the cheapest hardcore 

Reclaimed 

If you haven’t the access you would need a nan and a digger for half a day 

Still well within what you have been quoted 

Get the area surrounding the pit graded at the same time Within the price 

[Jeremy Harris]

Cheapest fill is probably crushed concrete waste, as @nod suggests.  if you want it to be a part of a garden, then worth smashing the top part in first, so it ends up down the hole, backfill with crushed concrete to within about half a metre from the top, then level off with topsoil.

[scottishjohn]

53 minutes ago, Gooman said:

The plan on the deeds notes the location and that it was/is 10ft x 10ft x 6ft6in

very rough calc would say 18cubic metres  of something 

 which would be approx 24 tote bags @£35 ? a bag ==£840

 or a  truck load --if you can get it direct to tip it in 

Edited August 5, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Gooman]

10 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Cheapest fill is probably crushed concrete waste, as @nod suggests.  if you want it to be a part of a garden, then worth smashing the top part in first, so it ends up down the hole, backfill with crushed concrete to within about half a metre from the top, then level off with topsoil.

 

Ah, interesting.

 

So if that has actually already been done properly, it might be very difficult to find evidence of it?

 

If we can't find it (even with the plan from the deeds) then this might be the case and I guess an indemnity policy might be the best route?

[Jeremy Harris]

Best way to find them is to locate the inspection chambers on the drain runs, lift the lids and see where the pipes go.  Any disused inspection chamber should be obvious, as it'll be dry and probably half full of muck.  If you can follow the line of the old pipes then you should find evidence of the old septic tank.  One of that age will almost certainly be brick or block built, as the GRP ones didn't really become popular until the 1980's.

 

BTW, it will be a septic tank in all probability, rather than a cess pit.  Cess pits aren't very common, as they need emptying several times a year, whereas a septic tank will drain to a leach field or soakaway of some sort, so will only need emptying once every year or two.

 

Sensible to be wary of the thing not having been properly filled in.  We had one collapse years ago and never knew it was there until then.  It was right under my mother's farmyard, too.

[Gooman]

Good advice as always, thanks @JSHarris! The plan does note a maintenance hatch (at least that's what I'm assuming "M.H." on the sewer line on the deeds map means) which is where the cess pool is teed off the sewer line). That should help point towards the location.

 

Both the map and the deeds specifically refer to it as a cess pit, and from the description in the deeds the intention clearly was to connect with mains sewerage at some point. There's definitely no leach field, as it's right next to a road and pavement!

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The "MH" on the plan will be for a manhole, I suspect.  If the intention was to connect to mains drainage as soon as it was available then it may well have been a cess pit, and the original owners may have just put up with having it regularly emptied for the time that it was in use.  Should make it easier to find, too, as the chances are what's marked as a manhole may be the access to the cess pit. 

[joe90]

We had cess pit that serviced the old bungalow, I had it emptied,knocked the top off and filled it with builders waste (soil, clay, rubble) and topped it off with top soil,  cheaper than a skip!!!,

[Carrerahill]

5 hours ago, Gooman said:

We're in the process of buying a new home. The house (and the one next door) were built in the late 60's/early 70's and it seems (from the deeds) originally had a cess pool before they were connected to mains sewerage.

 

The plan on the deeds notes the location and that it was/is 10ft x 10ft x 6ft6in. 

 

Obviously, we want to satisfy ourselves as to its condition, mainly from a liability point of view. We're thinking that:

1. We need to check that it was properly decommissioned by filling it with sand and/or gravel to prevent any collapse
2. If not, we also need to check that it's empty

 

Back-of-an-envelope calculations suggest it might need 2.5 tonnes of gravel to fill it, at a cost of around £2,500 (plus emptying if needed). Clearly something we'd want to be dealt with or accounted for in the price.

 

Do you think these concerns are reasonable? Anything else we should be wary of?

 

2.5tons? That doesn't sound enough at all. Hardcore is £12-25 a ton depends where and how much you buy it so if it was 2.5tons it would be £30-75. 

 

Find some road resurfacing works and buy a truck load of road planings. £60 a load seems to be the going rate.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Carrerahill

[Gooman]

4 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Find some road resurfacing works and buy a truck load of road planings. £60 a load seems to be the going rate.

 

 

 

My work used to be linked with the highways industry ... nowadays they recycle most road planings in-situ, reducing transport costs and removing the need for additional oil-based asphalt products. So that's probably off-limits I'm afraid!

 

Even if it wasn't, cutbacks mean there's very little road resurfacing going on round here anyway!

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, Gooman said:

 

My work used to be linked with the highways industry ... nowadays they recycle most road planings in-situ, reducing transport costs and removing the need for additional oil-based asphalt products. So that's probably off-limits I'm afraid!

 

Even if it wasn't, cutbacks mean there's very little road resurfacing going on round here anyway!

 

So where does all the stuff from the pot holes end up is what I want to know!

[Onoff]

I have a bottomless hole in the ground with a dubious top on it.

 

If I was to install a treatment plant the obvious place would be beyond the pit, further down the garden. It'd mean the pipe run to the new plant crossing the old pit so I'd have to be very careful when back filling.

[joe90]

29 minutes ago, Gooman said:

Even if it wasn't, cutbacks mean there's very little road resurfacing going on round here anyway!

 

I was lucky, they were doing lots of resurfacing around me and I bought about 40 tons of the stuff for my drive and paths  etc. At £4 a ton.

[PeterW]

Just now, joe90 said:

 

I was lucky, they were doing lots of resurfacing around me and I bought about 40 tons of the stuff for my drive and paths  etc. At £4 a ton.

 

Thats cheap - pay about £7 a tonne around here ..!

[Carrerahill]

23 minutes ago, Gooman said:

 

My work used to be linked with the highways industry ... nowadays they recycle most road planings in-situ, reducing transport costs and removing the need for additional oil-based asphalt products. So that's probably off-limits I'm afraid!

 

Even if it wasn't, cutbacks mean there's very little road resurfacing going on round here anyway!

Possibly in some, to be honest the minority of situations, but I can assure you road planings are still very much available. 

 

Where resurfacing works are being done, the planer strips them into a 8 wheel tipper and they get taken for "recycling". Recycling can mean anything from using them as fill elsewhere to using them to make new tarmac products... the fact is the recycling strategy involves plenty of them being sold. Arguably road planings have always been recycled as they never went to landfill and were always used for something - even if dumped temporarily in a vacant site etc. until they were used. 

 

Where a road is being resurfaced they want the old stuff out and the new stuff turns up to be laid, they are not going to re-batch it on site unless the project is frankly on a massive scale. On bigger civil projects it will be used locally if it can but the majority of the time it is taken away. 

[Carrerahill]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

 

Thats cheap - pay about £7 a tonne around here ..!

£60 a wagon round here - that would be a 32tonner - £1.88 a ton!

 

£40 for the fines from the road-sweeper which dosed with used engine oil or diesel makes a brilliant running surface!

 

 

 

 

[PeterW]

That’s far too cheap !! And I know what you mean about the sweeper finings - we did that and it went off like rock..!

[Ian]

Road planings - in N Wales last summer I paid £260 for a 20 tonne load delivered.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Ian

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

That’s far too cheap !! And I know what you mean about the sweeper finings - we did that and it went off like rock..!

I think there has been a bit of a glut over the last year or so as there has been a huge amount of infrastructure work done. Local authorities went a bit mad after the bad winter and started resurfacing roads like there were no tomorrow.