Russell griffiths Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 So the amount of choice is staggering, how do I pick the good from the bullshit. What sort of rating shoud i look for as far as glass is concerned. What do I look for in frames. How do I pick a good frame? i know what I like, I like slick flush non clunky. But how do I know it’s good or better than its rivals. Is it a given that the german stuff will be good or is this just con we have got used to hearing. Thanks for any pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 There are oodles of windows to choose from, I chose Internorm over cheaper alts such as Ideal Combi, Velfac, Rationel etc as I have a very exposed location and wanted the best I could afford as I knew they would get a battering from the weather........ also some of the others could not do the bigger panes of glass and good sight lines etc...Internorm offered me the most on my wish list but I do regret not having the solar coating (was told I wouldn't need it) or factoring in external blinds (ditto on being told not necessary). The film we have fitted is a big help but can never be as good as a factory finish and overheating is something to be aware of when speccing your windows. Whichever windows you choose.....and you need to go and look at some, take a tour to some members houses to see different brands in situ perhaps......make sure you have good fitters. My lovely (and expensive) windows totally messed up by suppliers rubbish fitting team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 We are hopefully over our window issues (fingers crossed) but only last week we had Internorm out to re-seal two windows where the glazed unit meets the frame. Internorm are blaming the window fitter's but when I asked him why do they not just have a seal/gasket between the frame and glass unit he said they have had problems long term and sealing with their product will last years. My reply was that this sealant had not lasted long since the windows have only been in 12 months to which he just raised his eyebrows. He also said it had been finished off incorrectly, the original installation team had squared of the sealant to the glass and he said they should have put a slight radius on it to allow the water to run off, my reply to this was who is training these guys. When you receive Internorm windows the small windows usually arrive pre-glazed (factory finish) and these windows have sealant that is square to the glass so the mind boggles. My reason for replying is that although you think you are buying the dogs b------- of windows it soon becomes clear that there are so many factors to take into account I am not sure you get what you pay for. When you place your order go over it with a fine tooth comb as our dealer tried to apportion blame to us when the wrong thickness of window arrived and it was only the installation manager sided with us that we managed to get a replacement. When the Internorm chap turned up last week and I asked him to look at a roof terrace door because it has a tendency to leak in really driving rain, he took one look at the door and told me it was the wrong type of door to have in that location. I was absolutely gobsmacked and said how the hell was I suppose to know that when placing the order and he just shrugged, told me he would order a rain deflector for the bottom as they have come across this issue before. Buyer beware I suppose. Happy window searching by the way!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said: [...] Is it a given that the german stuff will be good or is this just con we have got used to hearing. [...] Thank God someone - anyone - questions the primacy of the Teuton. My experience of German products is not uniformly good within Germany . But for export - different matter. One of the principal factors for me is my knowledge and understanding of the German QA system (TUV). The system is (was when I had experience of it - VW emissions ?) rigourous. I am not in a position to be able to compare one company's offering against another in any sophisticated way: we chose mostly - boringly - on country of manufacture. Stupidly really because German manufacturers never miss the opportunity to mention that their product is made in Germany. We spent about a year looking at several manufacturers: Velfac, Gaulhofer, Internorm. We fitted Gaulhofer (Austrian) windows. I'm fiddling about with the window reveals at the moment, and therefore looking closely at how they are built. The hinges: solid, well designed. Smooth as silk. High quality steel (well it looks high quality) . The ability to adjust individual door hinges - in and out, up and down - all I need is two screw drivers and a bit of muscle. Little things like clearly explained instructions on use, beautifully grained wood - straight, excellent finish. A huge 4 meter window which glides across the runner - one finger pushes a tonne (?) along the track. The track wheels have brushes which sweep the track : I have got down on hand and knees to check how well it does so because nobody other than me cares about keeping the track clean. Treble seals - I have no experience of why treble seals are better - I just assumed that three is better than two. Glass doors that have that VW clunk: they 'feel' solid. The locking system looks as if the TUV (QA) inspectors had eaten gravel for breakfast. I am well aware that my detailed experience of German products is perhaps out of date. I am glad that you have the gumption to poke at the halo that surrounds some German products: German manufacturers badly need to rebuild their reputation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 any big company employs "bean counters" and that,s where it goes wrong mercedes--for many years their quality has been dropping --then when you look closer you see why wiring looms --designed in germany --made in china -- and not enough checks on actual things to see if the material spec is what was specified once it gets in manufacturing merc suffered for years with this type of problem - citreon was the same -- wiring loom designed using certain type of wire and connectors --but came in substandard alternatives ,causing problems long term,only coming to light out side warranty period and its years before its picked up and suppler changed VW central door locking motor --£28 from polland,where it is actually made for VW --£95 from VW dealer so to think that ALL parts of your window system will be made in germany is a little naive. all you can do is hope they do enough batch testing . I remember someone complaining about door handles corroding and maker giving some waffle that he was not servicing them right !! give me a fxxking break --who the hell services door handles made from marine quality S/S they will never tarnish bet my last breath they were made in or from asian s/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: [...] and not enough checks on actual things to see if the material spec is what was specified once it gets in manufacturing merc suffered for years with this type of problem - [...] They still have to pass TUV. Which makes me think that there's something amiss with the QA .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said: They still have to pass TUV. Which makes me think that there's something amiss with the QA .... they will pass it when sent for certification -- and yes TUV will have as many holes init as "CE" ratings and"kite marks " local fire brigade would not accept a TUV approved fire escape ladder --as they had not tested that ladder them selves-so that shows what value there is is TUV Edited July 17, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 TÜV can be as flawed as any other body that comes under commercial pressure, though, I have personal experience of a TÜV approval body in the Netherlands effectively handing out Type Approval certificates for cash. The certificates in question were for safety equipment for use onboard commercial shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 For Glass, it’s pretty much down to a couple of values and it will be supplied from the usual suspects. I personally look to supply 48mm glass unit, 18mm space between the panes, psi value of .040 or below and argon gas filling. That’s the optimum unit in my view for a 0.5Ug. You can play around with the coatings to vary that Ug. Frame and style wise, it’s down to performance of the system, look/style and functionality. Which is a personal choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, lizzie said: Whichever windows you choose.....and you need to go and look at some, take a tour to some members houses to see different brands in situ perhaps......make sure you have good fitters. My lovely (and expensive) windows totally messed up by suppliers rubbish fitting team. Second the going and looking comment. Our frame builder is pushing very hard for Nordan and the ones in the showroom looked ok but the finish on some we looked at that had been in for a while was not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, AnonymousBosch said: We fitted Gaulhofer (Austrian) windows. I'm fiddling about with the window reveals at the moment, and therefore looking closely at how they are built. The hinges: solid, well designed. Smooth as silk. High quality steel (well it looks high quality) . The ability to adjust individual door hinges - in and out, up and down - all I need is two screw drivers and a bit of muscle. Little things like clearly explained instructions on use, beautifully grained wood - straight, excellent finish. A huge 4 meter window which glides across the runner - one finger pushes a tonne (?) along the track. The track wheels have brushes which sweep the track : I have got down on hand and knees to check how well it does so because nobody other than me cares about keeping the track clean. We also have Gaulhofer and are very pleased both with the aesthetic (we have a completely flush slim system), service and performance 3.5 years post install. The flush external blind system they do is excellent also - I know @jack had a lot of grief with his Rational equivalents (mainly installer issues) but ours arrived fully assembled to the frame and just slotted in to the pre-built recess in the frame. Was really unimpressed with Internorm, lazy sales people and high cost. Almost went with Nordan but they were very resource constrained and could not fit, only supply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Brooke Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I liked dealing with the Green Building Store. The window frames are wood but you would think they were aluminium faced as the finish is so good. After care has been good and the prices competitive. All in all a strong recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Bitpipe said: The flush external blind system they do is excellent also - I know @jack had a lot of grief with his Rational equivalents (mainly installer issues) but ours arrived fully assembled to the frame and just slotted in to the pre-built recess in the frame. Ours are Pazen, but yes, serious issues with installation. Had the installers known what they were doing, it could have been relatively stress free, even with the blinds not coming pre-installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I've just had to phone my local locksmiths to repair an Internorm lock....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesgrandepotato Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 We’ve been happy with our velfac installation. If you go to the self build place at Swindon or the shows then you can sample them for yourself. That removed some from our list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Have just been to the self build centre and noticed that Internorm had removed their stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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