reliqu

Maybe too idealistic

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Hello all,

 

In short I'm in my late 20's, moved out of London and no longer want to rent - but also don't like the idea of having a 25 year mortgage despite being able to afford it and have a decent paying career. I've always wanted to build my own home or have something that's entirely mine, rather than buying a flat in a crowded block or a terraced house and it never quite feeling 'mine'. I realise plenty of people are happy with this, but for me the idea of such a large mortgage for a very small space with expensive bills ontop and it never feeling truly like my own is a hard pill to swallow, and however difficult or unlikely, I'm continuing to look for an alternative. There has to be a different way of carving out a life beyond forever renting, or being in a mortgage for at least 10-15 years.

 

I'm still in the dreaming/researching stage in trying to figure out what my options really are, but at some point in the near future I'll need to decide on a route.

 

Currently it seems..

 

  • Buy a small plot of woodland, build something small and green, use the 4 year rule to retroactively apply for planning permission/change of use for the land, assuming I'm not noticed by the council. This is risky, and expensive given the cost of land, but the plot would only need to be fairly small, the rest comes down to relationship with neighbours/other land owners being happy with what I'm doing.
  • Find a piece of land at reasonable cost with no PP, enter into an option contract, apply for PP, and proceed if I get it (which by the looks of it seems rare unless it's already a residential plot which would defeat the purpose, as they often run 100k-200k+), build a small home.
  • Build a tiny house, rent or buy land, this is also risky but not so much if it's moveable on a flatbed or trailer as worst case I can move on, and at least in my current area there are plenty of farms, at least a few of which likely wouldn't mind me being tucked away in the corner. The problem with this is it'll never feel like a permanent, secure situation which is what I'm looking for.

 

I'd like to stay in East Anglia, but it seems only parts of Wales are more sympathetic to this way of living and have a good record of approving planning permission.

 

I'll be stealing ideas from this forum and hopefully taking in all the advice I can! Though my goals are probably a little different from most here.

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Just now, Moonshine said:

move to wales and live off-grid? (e.g. https://www.krisharbour.co.uk/)

 

 

 

Haha I've watched all of those videos as well as a bunch of others, and that would be ideal, but it does seem like something that's unique to Wales, as their planning offices seem a lot more liberal..

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Posted (edited)

Welcome.

 

(Currently choosing not to get into the debate as I only have half an hour).

 

I don't quite get the concept of your own terraced house not feeling like yours. It is. If you move out of London, doer-uppers can cost very modest amounts of money.

 

It is probably worth pointnig out that now is probably the best time for decades to have a mortgage, since you can get 10 year fixed money at less than 2.5%. And that will leave you with something at the end if you want to spend some time exploring alternatives.

 

I would also mention that a lot of people who head off into, or are icons of, the "deep green lifestyle" actually have a foundation in a more conventional lifestyle that is a permanent Plan B should they need it, or are quite well off, or have the backup of strongly-rooted families. eg the famous "Hobbit House" of Pembokeshire was built on the family farm.

 

Throwing a wildcard on the table, if you are still 'searching' in some ways ... for what you want to be and do ... you might enjoy an experience for a time of living in, or attached to, a community. The value is in being exposed to something 'other' as a contrast, and in offering service. I am familiar with communities such as Little Pilsdon and Iona, based in historic traditions, but there are many other forms and some which are secular, and some which are networks. I was for a time involved in a setup called the Othona Community, which has a dispersed membership of hundreds, but a base on the Blackwater Estuary near London.

 

Imo the advantage of the older communities is that they learnt how to manage themselves already, and are full of older people with decades of experience from whom much can be learnt.

 

Find people who have been marching to a different drum for 30 years or so, and buy them a pint of Stout.

 

Just thoughts.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited by Ferdinand
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Every Man-Jack-One-Of-Us here started with a dream - some call it an idea, others a thought, others a hope. And the process of turning those notions into to well-formed plans is called compromise. Millions of them. Some small, others painful, many based on howthehelldowedigourselvesoutofthismess.

 

Only you are in contact with your dreams. Many of the  compromises you will have to face are hidden at the moment. So steal away

31 minutes ago, reliqu said:

[...]

There has to be a different way of carving out a life beyond forever renting, or being in a mortgage for at least 10-15 years.

[...]

 

Don't stop looking or stealing, eh?

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Welcome.

 

You may get lucky with building an unlawful development and not be noticed for 4 years, but I suspect it's a heck of a long shot. 

 

There are (sadly, perhaps) a fair few people around who like nothing better than reporting what they see as unlawful activity, particularly amongst the hardened walking community (IMHO).  I doubt more than a month goes by here without a report by some nosey parker being submitted, with a fair few seeming to come from those who must spend hours just looking at Google Earth as soon as a new set of imagery is available.  Added to that, our local authority employs someone to just drive around looking for new developments, so they can charge council tax as soon as possible.  My experience of one of these people was that they weren't averse to climbing over security fencing in order to try and snoop around.

 

It would be great if more local authorities had policies like those in parts of Wales, aimed at encouraging sustainable development, but it doesn't seem as if many are keen on the idea.

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3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Welcome.

 

(Currently choosing not to get into the debate as I only have half an hour).

 

I don't quite get the concept of your own terraced house not feeling like yours. It is. If you move out of London, doer-uppers can cost very modest amounts of money.

 

It is probably worth pointnig out that now is probably the best time for decades to have a mortgage, since you can get 10 year fixed money at less than 2.5%. And that will leave you with something at the end if you want to spend some time exploring alternatives.

 

I would also mention that a lot of people who head off into, or are icons of, the green lifestyle actually have a foundation in a more conventional lifestyle that is a permanent Plan B should they need it, or are quite well off.

 

Throwing a wildcard on the table, if you are still 'searching' in some ways ... for what you want to be and do ... you might enjoy an experience for a time of living in, or attached to, a community. The value is in being exposed to something 'other' as a contrast, and in offering service. I am familiar with communities such as Little Pilsdon and Iona, based in historic traditions, but there are many other forms and some which are secular, and some which are networks. I was for a time involved in a setup called the Othona Community, which has a dispersed membership of hundreds, but a base on the Blackwater Estuary near London. The advantage of the older communities is that they learnt how to manage themselves already.

 

Just thoughts.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

I totally agree, and I'm aware alot of the headlining "Look I live off grid in a beautiful luxury cabin I built for £50,000 in materials" embraced the rat race for long enough to build up a very tidy bank account, to the point they could afford a large parcel of land, the free time to work on it, and the cost of jumping through the many hoops to make it all happen.

 

I suppose my fear of it 'not feeling like mine', is largely due to the fact that owning an actual house would mean moving out of my current area, a compromise for something that I'm not all excited about in the first place (a mortgage with more bills). Otherwise it'd likely be a flat, and with a flat comes the maintenance/building fees, as well as restrictions to what I can and can't do, even down to things like flooring. So that's what I find hard to swallow, besides just the idea of owing money.

 

Communities are definitely something I should look into, but didn't really know where to start. I'll have a browse at some of the ones you've mentioned, thanks.

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34 minutes ago, reliqu said:
  • Buy a small plot of woodland, build something small and green, use the 4 year rule to retroactively apply for planning permission/change of use for the land, assuming I'm not noticed by the council. This is risky, and expensive given the cost of land, but the plot would only need to be fairly small, the rest comes down to relationship with neighbours/other land owners being happy with what I'm doing.
  • Find a piece of land at reasonable cost with no PP, enter into an option contract, apply for PP, and proceed if I get it (which by the looks of it seems rare unless it's already a residential plot which would defeat the purpose, as they often run 100k-200k+), build a small home.
  • Build a tiny house, rent or buy land, this is also risky but not so much if it's moveable on a flatbed or trailer as worst case I can move on, and at least in my current area there are plenty of farms, at least a few of which likely wouldn't mind me being tucked away in the corner. The problem with this is it'll never feel like a permanent, secure situation which is what I'm looking for.

 

 

3 longshots.

 

1 - In England at least, I believe that since the Giant Haystacks case there is case law which says that deliberate deception loses you the right.

2 - There are places where resi plots with PP or very likely to get it can be found for 25-50k. They will be small, but they exist.

3 - They can feel permanent. But Tiny Houses are more expensive per piece of what you get istm. Fairly easily renovatable terraces can be 50k in lots of places.

 

Don't forget that there are still live-in jobs around like Hostel Warden and National Trust House Warden and RSPB Island Keeper.

 

Ferdinand

 

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1 minute ago, Ferdinand said:

 

1 - In England at least, I believe that since the Giant Haystacks case there is case law which says that deliberate deception loses you the right.

 

 

Yes, that's right. 

 

We had a case last week where a certificate of lawfulness application was presented, on the basis of a development that had existed, in some form or another, for about 12 years.  It's been referred to legal, as local opinion was that the development was deliberately hidden behind trees.  I drove up to look at it, and my (unqualified) opinion is that it was deliberately hidden.  In the process our clerk read out the relevant law and case law, and if an unlawful development is deliberately hidden from view then the normal rules that apply when applying for a certificate of lawfulness cease to apply.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

3 longshots.

 

1 - In England at least, I believe that since the Giant Haystacks case there is case law which says that deliberate deception loses you the right.

2 - There are places where resi plots with PP or very likely to get it can be found for 25-50k. They will be small, but they exist.

3 - They can feel permanent. But Tiny Houses are more expensive per piece of what you get istm. Fairly easily renovatable terraces can be 50k in lots of places.

 

Don't forget that there are still live-in jobs around like Hostel Warden and National Trust House Warden and RSPB Island Keeper.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

For 1, it's deliberate concealment, such as purposely hiding a property such as the guy with haybails did. Simply building something small and going unnoticed wouldn't be classed as deliberate concealment because you're not going out of your way to conceal it from the property line.

 

As far as I'm aware, something being concealed by trees as the example above is more often than not, not enough grounds to claim 'deliberate concealment'.  Simply living quietly and having a dwelling that's not easily seen isn't the same as purposely hiding it. I read about a case where someone had a dwelling 'hidden' by trees - eventually he won, but was then only overturned because he'd applied for planning permission to build an agricultural building, while all along planning to live there to build his dwelling. So had he just built the home in the trees without being sneaky by building a barn first, he would've been fine.

 

2. I've seen a few of these, in a lot of cases these are in fairly built up areas though, I've been looking for plots going on 6 months now and haven't seen one yet that fits the bill, but I imagine it'll take time to see something worth going to see with my own eyes.

 

3. Yea I'm totally aware, I know they can be built for fairly cheap, but being somewhat mobile takes away a lot of risk. But knowing that 'If you need to you can move' is a bit counterproductive to the reasons why I'm looking for alternatives, so I think I'm unlikely to go this route, although it'd be a good idea in the future should I get a large enough plot of land, with planning permission for a substantial build, a cheap tinyhouse to live in while working on the build wouldn't be the worst.

Edited by reliqu

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, reliqu said:

Communities are definitely something I should look into, but didn't really know where to start. I'll have a browse at some of the ones you've mentioned, thanks.

 

That's part of the point. They exist naturally in the cracks and at the edges of society, driven by unusual people who want (sometimes for now) to be different whilst being useful or serving unmet need.

 

Even the Centre for Alternative technologies started somewhat like that ... hippies with a common focus hippy-ing who found a way to make it work.

 

You need to go out of your way to investigate alleys in society you would not normally pursue. Religious Orders are interesting (modern nuns are brilliant usually), people at the joining points of lots of networks who have an awareness (eg Bishops or their staff, or people running training colleges), as are the odder bits of Universities, people with bees in bonnets, chaplains - eg hospital or industrial - of all denominations and none, and the quiet fulfilling things people do in their lives but not normally talk about. Follow up obscure asides in books. Knock on doors of interesting people and ask interesting questions; they will love it.

 

My most diverse contact was probably the Quaker aspect of the Selly Oak Colleges in Birmingham, where they used to have a "Centre for Communities", and a chap called Rev David Clark who wrote books on the subject. This is some years ago.

 

Ferdinand

Edited by Ferdinand

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44 minutes ago, reliqu said:

Hello all,

 

In short I'm in my late 20's, moved out of London and no longer want to rent - but also don't like the idea of having a 25 year mortgage despite being able to afford it and have a decent paying career. I've always wanted to build my own home or have something that's entirely mine, rather than buying a flat in a crowded block or a terraced house and it never quite feeling 'mine'. I realise plenty of people are happy with this, but for me the idea of such a large mortgage for a very small space with expensive bills ontop and it never feeling truly like my own is a hard pill to swallow, and however difficult or unlikely, I'm continuing to look for an alternative. There has to be a different way of carving out a life beyond forever renting, or being in a mortgage for at least 10-15 years.

 

I'm still in the dreaming/researching stage in trying to figure out what my options really are, but at some point in the near future I'll need to decide on a route.

 

Currently it seems..

 

  • Buy a small plot of woodland, build something small and green, use the 4 year rule to retroactively apply for planning permission/change of use for the land, assuming I'm not noticed by the council. This is risky, and expensive given the cost of land, but the plot would only need to be fairly small, the rest comes down to relationship with neighbours/other land owners being happy with what I'm doing.
  • Find a piece of land at reasonable cost with no PP, enter into an option contract, apply for PP, and proceed if I get it (which by the looks of it seems rare unless it's already a residential plot which would defeat the purpose, as they often run 100k-200k+), build a small home.
  • Build a tiny house, rent or buy land, this is also risky but not so much if it's moveable on a flatbed or trailer as worst case I can move on, and at least in my current area there are plenty of farms, at least a few of which likely wouldn't mind me being tucked away in the corner. The problem with this is it'll never feel like a permanent, secure situation which is what I'm looking for.

 

I'd like to stay in East Anglia, but it seems only parts of Wales are more sympathetic to this way of living and have a good record of approving planning permission.

 

I'll be stealing ideas from this forum and hopefully taking in all the advice I can! Though my goals are probably a little different from most here.

 

Opening paragraph is pretty much how I feel about mortgages. Add on student loan debt and pensions being rammed down our throat it's a great life to look forward to.

 

We decided after graduating that we didn't want to be in a city, renting a flat surrounded by people and concrete and tarmac.

 

We are about 2/3 ways through building a modest 3 bedroom home on our croft in the Isle of Skye. It's been a ten year project to get here and should be done in December. 

 

As a starter you need to look where the land is cheap, Western Isles & Central Highlands, rural wales. But a balancing act in getting a job in a rural location and then obtaining a self build mortgage.

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14 minutes ago, reliqu said:

 

For 1, it's deliberate concealment, such as purposely hiding a property such as the guy with haybails did. Simply building something small and going unnoticed wouldn't be classed as deliberate concealment because you're not going out of your way to conceal it from the property line.

 

As far as I'm aware, something being concealed by trees as the example above is more often than not, not enough grounds to claim 'deliberate concealment'.  Simply living quietly and having a dwelling that's not easily seen isn't the same as purposely hiding it. I read about a case where someone had a dwelling 'hidden' by trees - eventually he won, but was then only overturned because he'd applied for planning permission to build an agricultural building, while all along planning to live there to build his dwelling. So had he just built the home in the trees without being sneaky by building a barn first, he would've been fine.

 

 

The application we dealt with last week was just an unlawful development that had been built amongst trees.  I'll track it and see what happens, but the legal advice we were given was that building or erecting a dwelling unlawfully, that was hidden by trees, would be considered to be deliberate concealment.  For a certificate of lawfulness to be issued would require that the development should be in plain sight, and without attracting any objections for four years.

 

If that changes in the light of the legal bods looking at it I'll post back here, but that won't be for at least two months, I suspect.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

The application we dealt with last week was just an unlawful development that had been built amongst trees.  I'll track it and see what happens, but the legal advice we were given was that building or erecting a dwelling unlawfully, that was hidden by trees, would be considered to be deliberate concealment.  For a certificate of lawfulness to be issued would require that the development should be in plain sight, and without attracting any objections for four years.

 

If that changes in the light of the legal bods looking at it I'll post back here, but that won't be for at least two months, I suspect.

 

I'd be curious to see how it turns out too, my understanding is it comes down to intent, simply wanting a house in a forest isn't equatable to wanting to hide a house from the authorities and deciding to put it in a forest.

Edited by reliqu

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36 minutes ago, reliqu said:

Hello all,

 

In short I'm in my late 20's, moved out of London and no longer want to rent - but also don't like the idea of having a 25 year mortgage despite being able to afford it and have a decent paying career. I've always wanted to build my own home or have something that's entirely mine, rather than buying a flat in a crowded block or a terraced house and it never quite feeling 'mine'. I realise plenty of people are happy with this, but for me the idea of such a large mortgage for a very small space with expensive bills ontop and it never feeling truly like my own is a hard pill to swallow, and however difficult or unlikely, I'm continuing to look for an alternative. There has to be a different way of carving out a life beyond forever renting, or being in a mortgage for at least 10-15 years.

 

This is all good and well, but are you proposing to settle into this small house you build now, in your 20's and your situation will never change? You will never need more space? Are you on your own, do you have a GF/wife what space do you foresee you needing? Kids? I am not being rude but I think perhaps you should be on a lifestyle or life coaching forum first and work it all out.

 

In your late 20's you will still probably be a dreamer and things seem "possible" and sadly the older you get the more you start to realise life often cannot be simplified that much. In reality unless you can end up living in a shack on a beach collecting bottles for deposit money and eating fish from the sea your not going to just create bill-free accommodation. If it was easy, everyone would do it. 

 

Example: I reckon I could get a barn from a close friend of mine for about £25,000 - so I could buy that outright now and start to convert it, I could then sell my house and put those proceeds in the bank or to continue turning the barn into a beautiful house and I could live mortgage free. But this is due to the fact I have a friend who would do this for me (although it has major complications), however, it's not where I want to be, it's too far away from my "life" just now, it wouldn't be big enough for my family and it would have all the issues of getting change of use and planning and then there would be the issue of carving out a little plot to separate away from what he owns, then if he ever sold up I would have new owners that would surround me and live across a farm yard blah blah. Which is why I have not done it. Maybe if I was a little older, on my own, no wife, no kid, no dog and I could work locally I may have done this, worked it all out but I want more and this thirst will grow.

 

I don't get the issue of a house not feeling like yours - perhaps you need to get to the bottom of this. Renting is owning nothing, having nothing to show for it. At least with a mortgage you can sell up at any point and get your money back and hopefully more unless there is a financial crisis at the time of sale.

 

You are going to need to buy land and build, as cheap as you can make a new build they always cost money, you will need to pour money into it for long enough, so in the end you always pay. If you can afford a mortgage and your career is sustainable then that is a good option. Depending on what you earn and what you want you could get something with a short mortgage - how cheaply do you think you can get land for and build something? Do you have savings or sufficient salary to pay out every month to buy materials as your materials bill will usually outweigh your salary unless you are very slow at consuming them or earn a good 4-6k a month in which case why would you worry about a mortgage.

 

Lots of thinking and I don't think it starts here unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, reliqu said:

 

I'd be curious to see how it turns out too, my understanding is it comes down to intent, simply wanting a house in a forest isn't equatable to wanting to hide a house from the authorities and deciding to put it in a forest.

 

I strongly suspect that the legal test would be the standard one for "reasonableness", "What would be the view of the man on the Clapham omnibus?".  That's generally the test that's applied when it comes to judging things like intent.  I suspect that the majority of people might judge that building an unlawful development in amongst trees would be considered to be an intention to conceal, but I may be wrong.

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I am fortunate that I could afford to build (but not till the age of 62) our cottage but the funds came from years of living in and doing up houses along the way, with a mortgage. Being able to do this at your age will be very challenging but we all like a challenge so good for you. In our locality the planners are investigating several un permitted developments and it look likely they will loose their case and face demolition. I think this is a risk too far!!!! . We all love what Ben Law did but his business existed in the woodlands and originally (not sure it still stands) that he could not sell what he built.

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3 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

"What would be the view of the man on the Clapham omnibus?".

Yes - but we need to recall that the Clapham omnibus is now mainly packed with middle call Millennials traveling into work from their £500K Pied a Terres in Tooting and Balham up to the big smoke - their views might be interesting.

(I mean that - interesting) 

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10 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

 

This is all good and well, but are you proposing to settle into this small house you build now, in your 20's and your situation will never change? You will never need more space? Are you on your own, do you have a GF/wife what space do you foresee you needing? Kids? I am not being rude but I think perhaps you should be on a lifestyle or life coaching forum first and work it all out.

 

In your late 20's you will still probably be a dreamer and things seem "possible" and sadly the older you get the more you start to realise life often cannot be simplified that much. In reality unless you can end up living in a shack on a beach collecting bottles for deposit money and eating fish from the sea your not going to just create bill-free accommodation. If it was easy, everyone would do it. 

 

Example: I reckon I could get a barn from a close friend of mine for about £25,000 - so I could buy that outright now and start to convert it, I could then sell my house and put those proceeds in the bank or to continue turning the barn into a beautiful house and I could live mortgage free. But this is due to the fact I have a friend who would do this for me (although it has major complications), however, it's not where I want to be, it's too far away from my "life" just now, it wouldn't be big enough for my family and it would have all the issues of getting change of use and planning and then there would be the issue of carving out a little plot to separate away from what he owns, then if he ever sold up I would have new owners that would surround me and live across a farm yard blah blah. Which is why I have not done it. Maybe if I was a little older, on my own, no wife, no kid, no dog and I could work locally I may have done this, worked it all out but I want more and this thirst will grow.

 

I don't get the issue of a house not feeling like yours - perhaps you need to get to the bottom of this. Renting is owning nothing, having nothing to show for it. At least with a mortgage you can sell up at any point and get your money back and hopefully more unless there is a financial crisis at the time of sale.

 

You are going to need to buy land and build, as cheap as you can make a new build they always cost money, you will need to pour money into it for long enough, so in the end you always pay. If you can afford a mortgage and your career is sustainable then that is a good option. Depending on what you earn and what you want you could get something with a short mortgage - how cheaply do you think you can get land for and build something? Do you have savings or sufficient salary to pay out every month to buy materials as your materials bill will usually outweigh your salary unless you are very slow at consuming them or earn a good 4-6k a month in which case why would you worry about a mortgage.

 

Lots of thinking and I don't think it starts here unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree on the dreamer part 😉

 

Dreams and determination will get you where you want to be.

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Posted (edited)

As further grist to the mill, it turns out that my contact David Clark has retired and now lives in Bakewell, and has a blog where he discusses some of his thinking. Here for example on "The Human City".

 

https://www.diaconalchurch.com/human-city/

 

23 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

settle into this small house you build now, in your 20's and your situation will never change? 

 

Mid-30s by then !

Edited by Ferdinand

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Posted (edited)

at your age you have lots of time to find a plot 

jump through the planning hoops  and then save and build it a bit at a time with no mortgage 

 I,m 67 and i have a time problem ,as well as the money problems 

but i,m trying to get the right plot -lots of disappointments  so far --but you have to keep the faith and press on 

10years time full off grid with solar maybe be very  possible and not have to live like a hermit

Edited by scottishjohn

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Welcome

I would spend some time properly learning all you can about building physics and planning law.

If you really want to make a difference, get on the local parish council and work your way up the political ladder.  There is a serious lack of 'young' people involved in local politics.

Failing that, how about a houseboat.

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34 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

 

Disagree on the dreamer part 😉

 

Dreams and determination will get you where you want to be.

Determination drives me. Dreams usually lead me astray a bit then realism kicks in and brings me back down to earth, but, I do dream, I love to dream but I find separating dreams from reality keeps me sane else I get carried away with dreams that are unachievable (just now - anything is possible) and that can dishearten you.

 

You must manage your expectations - my wife and I have often discussed our ideal lifestyles - 1 is not far off what we have, but it requires enough income and hard graft to generate it, however it makes life a bit easier, it removes certain stresses, but at the same time, in doing so adds stresses but which is worse?

 

Another life is simple, quiet, small, inexpensive (so we can work as few hours as possible) and would be in the sticks, but creates schooling issues, having to drive everyday to schools - then you therefore really do need a good reliable car, probably two so you don't end up stuck in the sticks with no transport if one breaks down so before you know it your cheap life is adding up again. Then the fuel costs to drive up and down to see family and friends you left behind in the city. 

 

I think if I had ended up on my own at this stage, I would have gone for a simple country life, man and his dog and an old land rover for when you do need to go somewhere - mind you, I would need to convert it to electric eventually at great cost! 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I see that the Grand Designs Hobbit House (which burnt down and now has PP for a new one) in Lammas Village is for sale. 9 acres smallholding.

 

http://www.simondale.net/index.htm

 

Seems to have an interesting price. I would say 30-50% less would be about right.

 

How well paid did you say you were ? 😀

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/welsh-homes/grand-designs-revisited-what-happened-15969483

Edited by Ferdinand

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3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I see that the Grand Designs Hobbit House (which burnt down and now has PP for a new one) in Lammas Village is for sale. 9 acres smallholding.

 

http://www.simondale.net/index.htm

 

Seems to have an interesting price. I would say 30-50% less would be about right.

 

So what is that Interresting price?  They seem to have hidden it well as I could not see it.

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