agricultural land to residential (LPA local plan)

[eekoh]

So there's some farmland come up for sale at the edge of the town where I live. I'd very much like to build in or close to this town, but plots are hard to come by because its not very big and its surrounded by farmland.  I could afford to buy a couple of acres (if the vendor is willing to split the land parcel), though as its agricultural clearly I wouldn't get permission to build a house on it in the shorter term.

 

But what I was wondering is whether there is an opportunity to play the long game here the same way that a commercial developer would.  Its adjacent to the settlement boundary and access is at the end of an existing residential lane so in theory, when the LPAs local plan is up for review in a couple of years time I could propose it for allocation as residential and they would have a perfectly logical and policy-friendly way of altering the official land use to permit a dwelling.  Until then I could use it basically as an allotment, orchard and nature reserve (part of our longer term plan anyway if we can get a plot big enough) because that would count as agricultural land use and I could also probably get consent to build a barn.

 

Anybody have any experience of this approach? Does it sound like a completely stupid idea?!

 

 

[CC45]

probably uplift clause included so may not be as cheap as you think.

 

Depending on quality, agric land goes for between 6k & 15k per acre.

[eekoh]

Yep, I'm aware of uplift etc.  Its still far more feasible financially than buying a residential plot of the size that I want.  I'd actually be perfectly happy to maintain most of my plot as agricultural.  Unfortunately, there is very little provision in current English planning policy to create a new small-holding style development.

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by eekoh

[CC45]

to get a house on a small holding then you would need to prove an agricultural need - this is not easy with a small holding.  You need to prove there's enough work for someone, it is financially viable & that you must live on site (easier with livestock than crops).

 

a challenge.

[Roundtuit]

As long as you don't pay a premium for it, and are prepared to accept that planning permission is an outside chance, then I don't think it's completely stupid.  I don't think 'agricultural use' will cover an allotment or nature reserve though, so check your intended plans carefully first.  

[nod]

9 minutes ago, eekoh said:

So there's some farmland come up for sale at the edge of the town where I live. I'd very much like to build in or close to this town, but plots are hard to come by because its not very big and its surrounded by farmland.  I could afford to buy a couple of acres (if the vendor is willing to split the land parcel), though as its agricultural clearly I wouldn't get permission to build a house on it in the shorter term.

 

But what I was wondering is whether there is an opportunity to play the long game here the same way that a commercial developer would.  Its adjacent to the settlement boundary and access is at the end of an existing residential lane so in theory, when the LPAs local plan is up for review in a couple of years time I could propose it for allocation as residential and they would have a perfectly logical and policy-friendly way of altering the official land use to permit a dwelling.  Until then I could use it basically as an allotment, orchard and nature reserve (part of our longer term plan anyway if we can get a plot big enough) because that would count as agricultural land use and I could also probably get consent to build a barn.

 

Anybody have any experience of this approach? Does it sound like a completely stupid idea?!

 

1 minute ago, eekoh said:

Yep, I'm aware of uplift etc.  Its still far more feasible financially than buying a residential plot of the size that I want.  I'd actually be perfectly happy to maintain most of my plot as agricultural.  Unfortunately, there is very little provision in current English planning policy to create a new small-holding style development.

 

You never Know

A friend has purchased an quarry in a fantastic spot 

He gave the owner 50 k and 50 more in the unlikely event that he gain planning 5 years on he has 

The plot is worth at least three times what he paid 

 

[eekoh]

Yeah, I need to read up a bit on exactly what is permitted on agricultural land but I think growing fruit & veg should be allowed as they are foodstuff rather than ornamental and also beehives for honey.  And lots of farms have native species hedgerows, set aside areas, species rich meadows etc - in fact there are environmental stewardship schemes to encourage farms to include more of this sort of thing so that should all be feasible too.

 

You don't need to farm in a big commercial way for it to count as agricultural use, the bit where you'd need to prove its a viable business that needs you to live on site is if you're aiming to get consent for a dwelling on that basis alone.  But what I'm considering is slightly different - at the Local Plan review the council would typically be actively seeking additional residential land and if the whole parcel was put forward by the likes of Barratts, Bellways, Wimpy etc they'd probably couldn't say yes fast enough!

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by eekoh

[the_r_sole]

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Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, eekoh said:

Until then I could use it basically as an allotment, orchard and nature reserve (part of our longer term plan anyway if we can get a plot big enough) because that would count as agricultural land use and I could also probably get consent to build a barn.

 

Ok so.... 

 

Allotment, orchard or nature reserve are amenity land classes and not agricultural so you can’t do that, unless you’ve got hectares or more.

 

The 5 hectare rule also applies to barns, the most you can put up on smaller plots is a field shelter which must be moveable and that has to be on land greater than 0.4 hectares (1 acre). Anything else, you need planning. 

[Ferdinand]

 

Town edge plots can be awkward.

 

You also need to be aware of your responsibilities, which will include removing travellers and cleaning up fly tipping. And that an empty field will deteriorate if you do not maintain it ... even getting someone to cut the grass to stop tussocking will cost a couple of hundred a year.

 

So on that try and get one which does not back on to sources of chukaway crud eg gardens and for which you have a practical holding strategy eg rent bits to hobby farmers or hippies or a husky racer, or to a bloke with 4 cows to deter trespassers and a friend in a slaughterhouse, who gives you half a carcass per year.

 

For optimising your opportunity, take a look at barriers to future development and which ones you can rule out. Eg is it in the Community Boundary, has it been in the Shlaa etc. Look up Shlaa . Be aware of other and that may go first. 

 

If you are happy with all of that and treat it as a nice thing plus a possible windfall.

 

My opinion would be not to be Mr Inbetween .. go with enough for you and your future house perhaps bearing in mind the various dividing lines, or enough for a decent size housing estate, which in this case I would set as 5.1 Hectares due to the extra advantages of the rule. Big developers will not piddle about with say sites for 17 houses without a good reason.

 

If you find yourself going for planning permission, then over a certain area they charge you by area to process tha Application, and it adds up quickly. 

 

To apply for 17 houses, should you take that option, will cost approx not much less than 17x the fees to apply for one house.

 

Ferdinand

Edited July 9, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Russell griffiths]

My friends family specialise in this and have done for two generations. 

You need to be looking at least 10-15 years down the line. 

Do not turn it into a nature reserve. Definitely no ponds. And 2-3 years from when you feel you are ready for an application chuck some pigs on it, they will destroy everything. 

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, eekoh said:

[...]

But what I was wondering is whether there is an opportunity to play the long game

[...]

 

That is exactly what we did.

As so often @Russell griffiths is right - so, play it long, and then pop a porker on it.

[patp]

You could rent the land out to another local farmer while you wait. It happens all the time around here. Farmers rent land to grow potatoes (water source needed nearby) asparagus growing or pig production, anything really. The advantage is that you need to do nothing except collect the rent. Not sure about the farmer selling your land but around here they like farmland to stay as farmland and if offers are similar (or even if they are not) they will sell to the buyer who is going to farm it.

[scottishjohn]

a lama farm ?-breed them 

[eekoh]

23 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Ok so.... 

 

Allotment, orchard or nature reserve are amenity land classes and not agricultural so you can’t do that, unless you’ve got hectares or more.

 

The 5 hectare rule also applies to barns, the most you can put up on smaller plots is a field shelter which must be moveable and that has to be on land greater than 0.4 hectares (1 acre). Anything else, you need planning. 

 

Most of what I've found from my research suggests that allotments do count as agricultural land use, and would not require permission for change of use.  Same with orchard, it isn't a leisure/amenity land use, its the growing of foodstuffs and therefore agricultural.  Small areas of general woodland can also be planted on agricultural land, though there is a cap on the size of area beyond which it becomes forestry and requires change of use. In fact the first thing that comes up with a google search of 'can I plant trees on agricultural land' is a Farmers Weekly article from Aug 2018 extolling the benefits of doing just that.

 

You can't use an allotment as an extension of a garden so lawns or ornamental flower beds that would count as leisure use are out, but that's not what I'd want to do anyway.  There are circumstances where growing flowers could be agricultural - e.g. for natural dyes, essential oils, cut flowers for sale.

From other forums, where people have run into problems is where the plot has been adjacent to an existing garden and its been a bit less clear that it isn't an unlawful expansion of the garden or in some cases they've just thought that they own it and can do what they like without paying heed to the land use classification.

 

Nature reserve is something different, and that was perhaps a misleading term to use in my original question.  There are plenty of wildlife friendly things that can be accommodated within agricultural use without any official classification as a 'reserve'.

 

Anyway, whatever I might use the land for in the shorter term, there remains the question of whether it would be feasible to get a portion of it included within the local plan at a later date and thus converted to residential rather than trying to prove a viable business to get a tiny dwelling consented under agricultural permissions.  I have no desire to build (or live in!) a housing estate and they might not be interested in something as small scale as one or two dwellings, but it does seem plausible that such an approach could work within the current planning policy framework.  

Something to investigate further at least.

 

If I could afford to buy a small farm it would be so much simpler!

[Temp]

Have you considered constructing an agricultural building (planning not always required), waiting 10 years and then converting it? I believe you would need at least 5 hectares. The whole site must only be used for an agricultural purpose for that period. In theory you coukld  erect a nice oak framed barn specially designed to be easily convertable.

 

https://www.gov.uk/planning-permissions-for-farms/permitted-development

 

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/barn-conversions-and-permitted-development/

[PeterW]

11 hours ago, eekoh said:

Most of what I've found from my research suggests that allotments do count as agricultural land use, and would not require permission for change of use.  Same with orchard, it isn't a leisure/amenity land use, its the growing of foodstuffs and therefore agricultural. 

 

Only if your holding is above 5 hectares. Growing food does not automatically count as agriculture - there is a financial test on the viability etc. This is what catches a lot of smallholders out when it comes to BPA and other schemes. 

[Ferdinand]

I do not know if I put it in above. As an architectural student in the 1950s my dad was aware that his family smallholding could be potential development land, and actually did a couple of fill in bungalows along the road side in the 60s.

 

They were aware that there were only 2 wedges of land around the town left, so when grandad died they rented it to a local farmer, who - followed by his son - kept the tenancy as extra land for him for 60 years. Then we went for planning a few years ago and got it approved on Appeal following a political refusal (ie Councillors not wanting to upset their voters today, despite having zoned it for potential housing and having a good analysis in the local Shlaa). 

 

So I would say 3 things:

 

- Make sure you can get it.

- Make sure you can use and manage it practically, and it is substantially worth it without the windfall.

- Be aware of what the barriers to surmount will perhaps be.

 

The play farmland spot the ball.

 

 

Ferdinand

Edited July 10, 2019 by Ferdinand