Pete Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 I was away when we had our water connected up in the main road. I had requested and paid for a 32mm supply as we are about 80 metres from the main supply. I have now received photos of the actual connection and it shows the end of my 32mm pipe going into a reducer, a short length (100mm) of 25mm pipe and then the coupling into the main. My question is this normal as I expected it to be 32mm all the way to the main? I cannot see it making to much difference but just thought I would ask?
Russell griffiths Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 I have a 50mm main that goes into the metre box, it then has about 100mm of 25mm before the metre. Makes no sense at all, but it seems that’s how it’s done.
Mr Punter Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 You may be able to request a bigger meter but they often charge a higher standing charge because they are not so good at recording low flow rates apparently. We have a 50mm meter for fire sprinklers, just to establish there are no leaks and we are not nicking water. No standing charge for fire only supplies. We had a fitting go and the volume of water was epic!
Conor Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 Most meter boxes have 25mm connections and take concentric meters. It won't make much difference to your flow as long as the 25mm pipe is short. The tapping off the main should be 32mm, and again just reducing to 25mm in to the ebco/atplas box. You can calculate the pressure loss over that length if you know the static pressure and the max flow rate you'd expect to have.
Pete Posted June 25, 2019 Author Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Conor said: Most meter boxes have 25mm connections and take concentric meters. It won't make much difference to your flow as long as the 25mm pipe is short. The tapping off the main should be 32mm, and again just reducing to 25mm in to the ebco/atplas box. You can calculate the pressure loss over that length if you know the static pressure and the max flow rate you'd expect to have. I bought a 32mm atplas meter box so it really should be 32mm all the way. UU want an email to query with the connection company so will see what happens.
Conor Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 47 minutes ago, Pete said: I bought a 32mm atplas meter box so it really should be 32mm all the way. UU want an email to query with the connection company so will see what happens. Well that's weird. I used to work on new meter connection contracts (not UU) so feel free to PM me the photos and their site report for an educated opinion (rarely I get to say that!)
Pete Posted June 25, 2019 Author Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Conor said: Well that's weird. I used to work on new meter connection contracts (not UU) so feel free to PM me the photos and their site report for an educated opinion (rarely I get to say that!)
Pete Posted June 25, 2019 Author Posted June 25, 2019 That's my new connection on the left, the other is my neighbour also building his own house. My nephew (who used to work for UU) asked a senior man at UU today about our connection photo and his immediate response was the connections are to close and that our connection should have been 32mm straight from the main and he offered to contact a hydraulics engineer to work out our pressure loss which may come in handy when we see what UU are going to do about it.
Pete Posted June 25, 2019 Author Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Conor said: Well that's weird. I used to work on new meter connection contracts (not UU) so feel free to PM me the photos and their site report for an educated opinion (rarely I get to say that!) This is the description on the invoice
Conor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Yep, you've paid for a 32mm service but been given a 25mm service. In reality the pressure loss over that length will be minimal unless you are trying to fill a swimming pool..... But you did request and pay for a specific service, which they have failed to deliver. What has happened is the guys only had 25mm ferrules in the van and proceeded anyway saying they had the road open. The UU guy may be right regarding the closeness of the tappings, but as that is a modern PE main, it's not a concern. But again, they have to adhere to the standards. I'd outline the above comments and send back to UU requesting the connection is redone.
Pete Posted June 26, 2019 Author Posted June 26, 2019 Thanks. My thoughts exactly that they only had 25mm ferrules in the van.
Pete Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Just had a phone call from the water company about our 32mm connection. They said they are quite willing to dig up the road again which will involve closing the road and remove the 25mm ferrule and replace with a 32mm connection that we paid for. OR according to their engineers we will hardly notice a difference and we can leave it as it is and they will write the invoice off which is £1970. I know, I know it is very tempting to accept the mistake but at the moment we have no way of knowing if the water pressure will be what we expected and it will be next year before we have the showers on and the pressure is not adequate. I do not want to be put into a position whereby we have to alter the DHW system just to overcome the poor flow. Just so you are aware we are approx 80m from the main to the stopcock and the mains pressure is very good with the distance to the furthest shower about another 15 metres. What is the general consensus? TIA
ProDave Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 I really can't see that is going to be an issue. The reason for using larger pipe on a long run is lower pressure drop along that long run. you still have the larger pipe on the long run so I doubt you will notice any problems. I would let them write off the invoice and spend that on something else.
PeterW Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 52 minutes ago, Pete said: but at the moment we have no way of knowing if the water pressure will be what we expected Test it now ... Need to make a dynamic and static test rig, but pretty simple to do from some plumbing bits and a pressure gauge. What is on "your end" of the 32mm pipe..?
Carrerahill Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 On 25/06/2019 at 21:03, Pete said: It looks to me like a case of, that is the saddle valve they had in the van, so that is what they were going to use!
joe90 Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) Well my incoming pipe is 25mm and about 50m, I have had to use a pressure reducing valve in the house as we get 6 bar!!! And that blows the garden “click” fitting apart regularly. I am going to install another after the incoming stop cock so all pipe pressure is reduced. (Spend the money ?). Edited July 3, 2019 by joe90
Conor Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Pete said: Just had a phone call from the water company about our 32mm connection. They said they are quite willing to dig up the road again which will involve closing the road and remove the 25mm ferrule and replace with a 32mm connection that we paid for. OR according to their engineers we will hardly notice a difference and we can leave it as it is and they will write the invoice off which is £1970. I know, I know it is very tempting to accept the mistake but at the moment we have no way of knowing if the water pressure will be what we expected and it will be next year before we have the showers on and the pressure is not adequate. I do not want to be put into a position whereby we have to alter the DHW system just to overcome the poor flow. Just so you are aware we are approx 80m from the main to the stopcock and the mains pressure is very good with the distance to the furthest shower about another 15 metres. What is the general consensus? TIA Accept the discount! It won't make a noticeable difference. They may have messed up but in reality the pressure losses in your internal house plumbing will be much, much higher than this short section of 25mm pipe. 1
Carrerahill Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Pete said: Just had a phone call from the water company about our 32mm connection. They said they are quite willing to dig up the road again which will involve closing the road and remove the 25mm ferrule and replace with a 32mm connection that we paid for. OR according to their engineers we will hardly notice a difference and we can leave it as it is and they will write the invoice off which is £1970. I know, I know it is very tempting to accept the mistake but at the moment we have no way of knowing if the water pressure will be what we expected and it will be next year before we have the showers on and the pressure is not adequate. I do not want to be put into a position whereby we have to alter the DHW system just to overcome the poor flow. Just so you are aware we are approx 80m from the main to the stopcock and the mains pressure is very good with the distance to the furthest shower about another 15 metres. What is the general consensus? TIA I would be interested to know the actual internal dim's of the actual barb through the mains pipe and the type of valve, looking at the 32mm pipe and the size of the main body of the saddle valve it looks like there is a restriction in there anyway. It is only a short length of reduced diameter pipe so I would be tempted to leave well alone - can you test the flow at your house yet? Also, do you know what the pressure is on that mains and at your house? Some mains can be very good some not so good, if your on good mains pressure then that will help too. I'd let them write it off and just plumb the house carefully to suit if you think there will be an issue.
Oz07 Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 Another vote for testing it at your end now if it takes you a day and earnsyou 2 grand it's a good day. What's the difference in cost between 32 and 25 connection?
Pete Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Thanks for the replies. The pressure in the main is very good so my thoughts are leaning just accepting and moving on. 3 hours ago, PeterW said: Test it now ... Need to make a dynamic and static test rig, but pretty simple to do from some plumbing bits and a pressure gauge. What is on "your end" of the 32mm pipe..? Internal stop cock,drain and 22mm push fit connection
PeterW Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 Ok ... couple of ways of checking, worth getting hold of a pressure gauge if you haven’t got one ..? Can do it all for about £15 in bits, a bucket and a stopwatch ..!
Pete Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, PeterW said: Ok ... couple of ways of checking, worth getting hold of a pressure gauge if you haven’t got one ..? Can do it all for about £15 in bits, a bucket and a stopwatch ..! Got an open end of 25mm MDPE pipe in the garage as it steps down from 32mm to 25mm so could perhaps play around with this to the testing
scottishjohn Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) the £1900 would pay for an accumulator ,if you had a big pressure drop and would smooth out flow+pressure and you would still have £1k in your pocket,or just take the money and fit accumulator if needed later Edited July 4, 2019 by scottishjohn
Mr Punter Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 It is also worth checking the size of the meter as this can also be a bottleneck.
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