Ferdinand

A thought occurred (ding!). I have just gone for double glazing for a (rented) house, and paid my deposit through my agent to the DG company. I should actually have paid direct via Credit or Charge Card, because I then have section 75 (ie joint liability of the card provider) protection, which gives me comeback against both the DG company and the CC provider. Analogy for self-build: if I am buying materials direct, rather than through the Builder / Contractor, then I have that extra protection for faults with whatever I have bought, rather than just potential claims against a small builder who may go bust. I do *not* have that protection if I have paid with BACS or FastPay, but payment by Debit Card provides some protection but less than a Credit Card. Ferdinand

(shameless but ethical attention seeking) Would they do a podcast interview with someone about Buildhub? (/shameless but ethical attention seeking) Ferdinand

On complaining about Councils, it is a long process that will probably take a year or more in toto. There's an analogy with PP, in that you have to go through the local process first before complaining to the regulatory body. The formal process is something like - complaining to Customer Services Section, then to Head of the relevant Service, then to the Ombudsman. They will probably (never done it) want you to have discussed it with the Planning Officer, and manager of the Officer first. Each Council has its own process (though there will be a template somewhere), which can be accessed via gov.uk: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-your-council There *is* provision for compensation at national level in some form, but I don't know if it covers eg consequential loss. It might be tempting to try the Small Claims Court if it is a clear cut case, but I have *no* idea if that has ever worked. There are other routes, such as your MP etc. I would say spend your legal / complaints budget on expert planning advice for your second submission, so that you cover as many angles as possible. There are some ideas about selecting a Planning Consultants or advisers on the thread linked below. You need a proven successful record for cases very like yours, and intimate knowledge of your local council. You also need to know their role and your role, to have a very careful brief, knowledge of what your total budget for the process will be to each stage, probably a cap on the Consultant's time / budget, and I'd use a fixed price success fee on top. For your own use it may also help to write down what circumstances will make you consider walking away to avoid "Dog and Bone" syndrome. You can get free advice from the Planning Aid service of the Royal Town Planning Institute, but make yoruself aware of teh types of questions they can answer. http://www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-aid/ Ferdinand

I think we should note for the protection of casual visitors that Peter W is a trained Tree Surgeon, and that these machines can have your leg or arm off very quickly if you feed stuff in badly eg if you get your hand wedged in a branch by mistake, or even if your shirt cuff or glove, gets hooked. They are relentless and can run at one or two feet per second, so you have a few seconds to get free from a moving snag while being dragged off your feet before it is bye bye. That is, 5 seconds for a 10ft branch, or 3 seconds for a person. Requires training to the same degree as a 1m chainsaw imo. This is one of those areas - like moving big but small-looking chunks of rock around or cutting branches off trees which are heavier than they look, where it is possible to get into a situation that could cause far more serious injuries than the casual operator might expect. A mid-sized branch falling badly can break your pelvis, this can make parts of you into a pizza topping. Ferdinand

+1. One strategy that might work.

And a big welcome.

There is a 2% chance I may be off beam here if my assumptions are wrong, but... The PINS don't decide Planning Applications; they rule on the validity Planning Decisions taken (or not taken in time) by LPAs by applying Planning Law, Precedent, Policy and Practice. My initial reaction is that someone has misdirected you in telling you that you can go to Appeal with an amended scheme, which has not been considered by the Council. It can happen but is truly exceptional. It looks to me that your Appeal has been rejected when the Planning Inspector ran into the first impact of your decision to try and appeal using an amended scheme, which should have gone to the Council and been rejected first before being eligible for Appeal. Surely by definition you cannot Appeal a decision which has not been allowed to be made? Unless you meet the conditions for an exception to the rule, which in my opinion would have required expert planning advice. Whether that can be done is governed by something called the Wheatcroft Principle. See Section 3.1 and Appendix M of this document: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544036/Procedural_Guide_Planning_appeals_v8_0.pdf And this for an example of how Planning Consultants think they can use (= usually exploit / manipulate) it to get an Appeal by making just enough changes: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544036/Procedural_Guide_Planning_appeals_v8_0.pdf IMO, not having followed normal procedure, your potential claim is likely to be against whoever advised you to Appeal with an altered scheme. Unless it was a valid exception to the normal process. Of course, you could use your free resubmission (timescale limit?) as a way to get a new Appeal, but if you do not have the expertise yoruself, get some advice if you have not already done so. A new Planning App refused would be a new Appeal and a new Case. My sympathy, but you probably tried to use the process in an inappropriate way. Ferdinand

+1 or you may find a Lecky who is happy to do the live wire thing. I don't see why it needs multiple Building Notices, but I do not know that system. Why can't you just put it all on a single one? Once it is submitted you have iirc 3 years to do the work. One way to proceed with the electrics (full rewire) would be to pay an electrician to do some of the work, with oh doing part (eg running wires but not connecting up), then having the Certification as part of the Lecky's package. Given that you are doing lots of other stuff, it may work, and rewiring a house like yours is only a few (perhaps 3-4 minus the work you do), so may be an attractive option.

I suppose one also could grow the Trees while waiting for the Planning Permission, or stage an armed robbery at the Morgan factory.

The people with the statistics will be TRADA or the Timber Trades Federation, or possibly a Government Department, or the Research bit of the Forestry Commission or the right college/uni, or perhaps the Scottish Government.TRADA are unlikely to give you free information; TRADA is very commercial - you will get warm fuzzy replies, but they know the value of scarce information. Though I see their members' magazine is available as a download: http://www.trada.co.uk/membership/downloads The TTF journal is called the Timber Trades Journal, and their may be some information therein. Ask your local BM or Timber Merchant if they have a copy. Or there ,may be something on their website if you excavate it. I would expect a seasonal variation, but I have no idea on the pattern. If you can get a hold of a copy of the TRADA Yearbook that might help. One other route *might* be to ask a technical person from your Timber Frame or other supplier (if you have one and they are in TRADA) if they know anythniog or can find information; obviously you won't get data about cladding prices from a cladding supplier. I would also expect prices to stabilise after BREXIT, but it will take some time. Perhaps a local tree and a chap with a porta-mill is your answer, like a less hardcore, outsourced, version of @recoveringacademic ? There may be the right kind of tree lying around somewhere in a treeman's yard or in the corner of a local estate etc. Has anyone here sourced their own cladding from the continent and gone to fetch it with a trailer while on holiday? Or put a classified ad on Arbtalk? One secondary degree indicator I noted was that the Church Commissioners have moved significantly further into Timber investments in 2015, which suggests they detect long term value. They are superb strategic investors with an outlook over up to 50 years or more. Annual Report linked from here: https://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2016/05/church-commissioners-announce-total-2015-return-on-investments-at-82.aspx Ferdinand

I think the important points are probably: 1 - Consider your strategy carefully in advance; there are a lot of options. 2 - Local knowledge of your Planning Department is important. 3 - If skinning a cat, you will only get so many chances - and to try so many different ways before the cat notices. 4 - Take advice if you need it. 5 - Once out there, information cannot be brought back in ... so take care what and when you tell anyone. 6 - Consider keeping exploratory things verbal - much Planning Information, such as your correspondence, can be Freedom of Information requested. Not sure where the limits are. Ferdinand

Cheers

Also, BH member @Calvinmiddle: 1 - Lost a Planning App at Appeal. 2 - Applied for a Lawful Dev Certificate for a workshop etc. Approved. 3 - Applied for a bungalow on the same plan and form as the workshop. Won this on Appeal for non-Determination (ie Council missed deadline). 4 - Then he reapplied for something of a bigger area and got that too. This is what he is building. There's more than that to it, but it was one way of spiking some categories of objection at each stage. You may need help and an intimate knowledge of your Council policy. See: http://www.ebuild.co.uk/blog/20/entry-185-part-2-the-planning-saga-episode-1/ http://www.ebuild.co.uk/blog/20/entry-186-part-3-the-planning-saga-episode-2/ Ferdinand (Reminds me Calvin, I don't think I followed up our previous chat - will try to remember as it will only take a minute).

I will just comment that you need to take care in what order you do things. If you remove (or possibly sufficiently remove) what is there already, then you may find that you are suddenly treated as a blank site. eg If that were to happen somewhere where PP would not normally be granted then the development opportunity may have been lost. I know that is not your circs, but the same type of event can occur. Perhaps if you remove a shed, then have your PD rights taken away as part of your application, you will struggle to replace the shed. I think that our user @Construction Channelis doing some creatively extensive alterations under Permitted Development, though that is in an agricultural situation. He may have some interesting things to say. Ferdinand

Here I have good experiences of BCOs and OK experiences of Planners. We still have a "Duty Planner" and they are quite willing to answer reasonable questions if it can be a brief conversation. @Nikc - what is the "sub 5k" package, please? Projects under £5k budget (eg putting a lintel in a widened doorway)?

Staple the stuff itself to studs with a staple gun? Ferdinand

Late to the party. Mine was from Wickes 3 years ago, and is a Belle own-branded iirc. Ferdinand

I'm assuming that Peter's 1:40 number is the one from the Building Regs (2.5cm per metre sounds about right). To my mind it is equally important to make sure that it is downhill everywhere with no "puddle spots". As to how to measure it - hadn't thought about that ! It could be a good excuse to get a laser level, but since soil pipe comes in 5m lengths and is quite rigid it may be easier than you think to measure from 2 or 3 points. I think I would measure every 2-3m using my long spirit level crewed to a straight batten. I might even do it by counting one brick (75mm) of height for each 3m, fixing a couple of nails, and laying the batten across one nail and measuring the vertical to the other, then adjusting, and putting my brackets *there*. Having had some "ishoos" with slack drains, I might make it a bit steeper for luck. Ferdinand

If we took it seriously I suspect a lot could be done ... Compulsory meters everywhere for a start, never mind agricultural use. And then there's the small matter of embedded water .. Eg imported in fresh flowers. Ferdinand

You probably want to leaven my skepticism with experience from some people who have actually done it :-) . F

Thought you might like that, Nick. More work for plumbers ! F

Having taken the time to read the relevant building regs document (G?), I am a little doubtful about its efficacy.. My initial impressions are: 1 - The model and calculations suggested are only tangentially related to actual water usage in the future. 2 - The calculator looks like a over complicated, mainly disfunctional, zombified hangover from the Code for Sustainable Homes, and like the CFSH requires certain decisions to be made at a time which is not sensible - for example it makes the rating of your house dependent on the type of washing machine you choose to install. (rant) That is simply stupid, and is founded in a politico-bureaucratic regulatory desire for micro-control of our lives which has been pushed beyond the realistic. I don't want to make this political, but our Govt in the 2000s did have an addiction to microcontrol, checkboxes and "Tractor Statistics"; that poison has not yet been rooted out sufficiently. (/rant) 3 - The model admits that it cannot be an effective measure of future water usage. 4 - The relationship between consumption and occupancy is not clear. ie If you tell them there will be 3 not 2 people living in the house, does it help? 5 - I can see some sense in eg limitation of flow rate of a tap, use of aerating fixtures etc, basic limitation of washer use per kg of washing, but they have gone too far in their desire for control. However, it is in the regs, and with the regs we are required to comply, so 1 - I think a brief conversation (email: you get a written record) with Building Control is indicated to find out if they have adopted locally the tighter option. 2 - The easy way is to take The Red Pill - which is a "fittings approach", if you can meet the limits. It may be worth fitting cheap, compliant items, and replacing later rather than enter the nether world of the Water Efficiency Calculator. 3 - If you take The Blue Pill, then I think the way will be to have a Water Efficiency Calculator spreadsheet (which must be available somewhere), and keep it as a living document during the relevant stages of your design. 4 - Take care on the amount of detail you give to official people. The process looks flexible enough that you can adjust what you do to meet the requirements in several ways. Not sure how you would get one of those two person "Gent plus Geisha" Japanese wooden baths with seats past the "185 litre to overflow" limit, though - perhaps a complaint against the regs to the Equalities Commission on the basis of Race Discrimination. Or include two overflows, the lower one fitted with a cork. Ferdinand

There is a further option for 1 and 2 which I haven't discussed, and that is to have 2 narrow ensuites back to back - which I assume is what @Nickfromwales is implying by 2 windows. If pushed, an ensuite shower / loo / whb can be fitting into around 0.8x1.8m or 1.0x1.4m, which would let you do 2 back to back in the space you have or a little more generously in the space with a little extra nicked from the bedrooms, and have more left over for something else. An example of a not particularly compact example is here: http://ukbathroomguru.com/adding-a-small-en-suite-shower-room/ These are 2 links you may find useful: Plans: http://www.houseplanshelper.com/small-bathroom-floor-plans.html Rules: http://www.houseplanshelper.com/bathroom-dimensions.html Also lots on Pinterest but they spam you to register. I have an Ikea whb called a Lillangen, which is 400 deep and 600 wide, with a "stand things here" build-in shelf behind the bowl and vanity unit for about £200 iirc. Good but needs effort to keep clean (wipe every day). The extra width prevents it feeling mean and it is the right shape for cleaning boots. http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00135419/#/30135432 But there are plenty of options about. Just take the time to let the concept steep in your head. There is also a thread on ebuild about thin partition wall construction, where amongst others Jeremy talked about his compact walk-in-wardrobe. Photos are inaccessible but that wouid be a good thread for someone to move over (you know you want to). You could get your partition wall down to 60mm thick or so. http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/14367-building-a-thin-partition-wall-how-thin-can-i-go/ If you could take your space depth up to 1900mm or 2000mm between the two rooms, you could even plan a 1.8mx0.8m to 2.0m x 1m shower ensuite each side (760mm x 1m shower inside side with no door and shower head on bedroom wall to avoid splash (*), whb facing, loo against external wall with window - big mirror above the whb facing the sliding (?) door to make it feel larger), and then leave space for a 1.5m x 900 deep L-shaped "stand in" wardrobe for each room, with storage at the back and the side. You then need to work out how to get it past the regulators :-). (Update: you *could* look at ensuite pods, which could simplify your construction, as used in student accommodation etc - from a couple of thousand each. Suspect most here won't go for that option, though - too easy! ) Ferdinand (*) I hate moving doors on showers.

Start a separate thread on that unless there is an existing one as others have experience. Presumably things like aerating taps etc have an effect, and there are quirks in the calculation which iirc is a little eccentric and down to local interpretation. You could also eg arrange your "Jack and Jill" in such a way that it could be split in 2 with the addition of a stud wall and the extra fittings etc, or make half of it into a walk in wardrobe for the first year. Ferdinand

I've adjusted my view on this layout. I think a consideration should be that the loo flush for each bedroom - the noisiest part of the ensuite - should be next to the wall of the bedroom for which that is the ensuite, so that when A flushed the loo at 3am, B does nto get the noise. One way of doing that would be to put the shower at the far side of each ensuite as you enter from the bedroom. Ferdinand