Ferdinand

Agree with the t'others. Your council chap is impressively far on a limb.

Personally I would follow the background.

OK promised some further comment. That is, if you have any recalcitrant planners in your Council you have space to bury three in each trough. But your buying troughs only 1.2m makes it more difficult. I think you have a very good handle on it, but I would say: 1 - In my view, it sounds as though your firbeglass planters may well be able to self support to an extent, and not need supporting over their full length (which could save some blocks and some work). You need to make a judgement. 2 - I have (will in a minute) attached a couple of pics of my use of the system. As you can see, I have done it with huge pavers, so nothing will move short of an intervention by a herd of elephants. The row of bricks is me storing my spare housebricks in a channel which I also use for running satellite cables etc. 3 - I think the way I would suggest proceeding is to get your planters in, and get some blocks, then have an experiment to see what you think works before you commit to 300 blocks. If fewer will do it - so much the better. 4 - I would recommend putting a couple of drawstrings in under your patio at the sides whilst you can - if you may want to insert electrical cables, watering systems etc later. Alternatively you may decide that they will run happily behind your planters and can be added later. 5 - I think it would make sense to have an automatic watering system for your planters. There is conversation on the forum about that. Several of us use the Kleber system. 6 - You need to consider *now* if there is any extra structure you need to put in - eg do you want a pergola to help transition the space from the house to the patio? If you do, then however you are going to support it needs to be considered. 7 - I think the most important thing to say is that you now need to think about your planting as thoroughly as you have about the patio itself. You have a huge amount of trough, and having spent yonks of money on the planters, you owe it to yourself to do the rest so carefully. Do you, for example, want to dedicate one section to growing hanging veg and fruit (tomato / beans / aubergines etc)? (Will need a framework). I would suggest getting some advice from somewhere on that, as it will effect what type of soil and compost you use. It will make a huge difference to your enjoyment. 8 - Yes, the holes are necessary. Otherwise in extended rain it will turn into a large bucket of water with some soil in it, and over time will kill your plants as the roots will get no oxygen. Although there might be an idea in turning a planter into a water garden or bog garden. (As I say - take some proper advice as these planters are your outdoor-room decor for the next 10 years). That's all from me, unless you have some more questions. Ferdinand

Try some of the blogs as a good start.

There is really no need to be daunted. As it happens I know that @Onoff is a little old lady with an umbrella on a mobility scooter, as per the pic below. The hand you sometimes see pointing in the photos is left over from a postman who wasn't quick enough. She has it mounted on the end of a selfie-stick.

(Avoids mentioning Abigail's Party Niches)

You're telling me it's finished? *faints*

What happens if you go over budget by say 10%? Does the A suddenly get 10% more because a material price went up?

Welcome.

Backlit niches are for Abigail's Party and nightclubs run by Michael Flatley.

Then do it to the walls and as remarked but shelves in. Or a corner shower seat for when you become old and decrepit, and to sit on to clip your nails and shave your pelt.

Square it off and put a triangular cupboard or shelves in the office or hall.

OK. Sunday morning think though with a croissant and a cuppacoffee. AIUI in a sentence you want to support a pair of full length approx 5.4m L x 0.6m H x 0.4m ish W planters with a base approx to support the planters, prevent the patio in between wobbling, and compensate for a (very) slight slope (7cm over 5.4m). Is that right? You are dealing with slightly under 1 cubic m of volume on each side for the supports if they are solid, and just over 1 cubic m for the planters. Let me ask a couple of questions: 1 - Does it actually wobble? Have you tried getting 6 people to Do The Locomotion (*) or the Conga on it? Admittedly I use pavers on mine that weight 60kg each and nearly kill the handymen when they install one, but I have a wheelchair path made from them and they are as solid as a rock. If it is solid, then your anti-wobble spec may be unnecessary. Are you planning to mortar all your blocks together? That may be unnecessary. Do Eterno specify lateral reinforcement? 2 - Are they single piece planters? A little maths suggests that each side will have a weight of a tonne just in topsoil. Even if they are a low density alternative, unless they are in about 5 sections they are never going anywhere ever again without a crane and you will be maintaining around them (which may be fine). Given your attention to detail I expect they are in sections. It is possible that something loose plus the weight of the planters will prevent any potential wobble? Huge things - you have got space to vanish an entire planning department without trace ! These are my thoughts a - Your blocks will work to be the right width and height if you lay them on the flat at right angles or lengthways, as they are typically 215 x 440 x 100. Though that is a bit of a squeak to your 44cm gap. But 100mm thick blocks on the flat would give you a nice 3-4" level below your patio level for the trough base which lets you sweep debris off and uses the planters as anti-wobble, as you suggest. The small gap doesn't matter if the planter is never coming out again ?, and you just have piers not totally solid. There may be slightly difference size blocks somewhere if you look. b - However, there is no need for it to be continuous imo - I would have thought a 2x2 'pillar' every 1.3m or 1.7m would be fine, as a planter is an area load not a series of point loads. If you need distribution then consider something like plastic decking boards or gravel boards as you say. Fibreglass sheet may be an option. c - You could also do anti-wobble by finding a way to brace against the fenceposts. If they are concrete fenceposts, then a wedge of an appropriate sort may be all you need if anything at all. d - For the slope. You have already mentioned that you are planning to perhaps use small pedestals. One suggestion is to use something called a "self-levelling head", designed to give a flat terrace on roofs with a say 1:40 fall underneath. Wallbarn do these nearly for pennies that can handle up to I think 5 degrees. See if Eterno do, or switch system if you need for the sides. https://www.wallbarn.com/pedestals-2/balance/ Another option is just to use some offcuts from your patio tiles, and slates when you need them thinner, not big enough to poke out of the sides. e - Personally I would go with pedestals and self levelling heads, just held down by the planters. But I would devise a test before I irrevocably committed. Ferdinand PS Remember drain holes in the planters. There may be an argument for having them 20mm up the side so that a water reservoir accumulates if that helps your planting. *

Good stuff - most informative. Looks well-considered. My setup is similar but I use pavers. (Also a slightly apology as all that is in your OP, and I try and catch all the detail 'cos it annoys me when I sweat over an OP and people only read 60% of it. it's easier to be incomplete or waffly, and yours is neither.)

When the snow starts, Heidi will be moving in ....

This particular post about upfront spending may be of interest, just as a sighting point for a lot of items.

There are toy ones that go through your front door. Then more useful sizes 1.5t to 3t, that will go through perhaps a 1.2m gap. Then the serious ones. I used a 1.5t to do a slab for a big conservatory, and it was fine. One thing to think about is whether you can tow it on your license with your vehicle.

Or have a day at Diggerland, which reopens on 11 July. https://www.diggerland.com/ If you plump for one, then they are very very useful - Salamander Cottage blog has a couple of posts about it. (You need to like grease)

What I mean here is that as a self-builder you need to develop the skill of looking down the other end of the telescope. About a decade go, Wales decided that all new houses have to have sprinkler systems rather than fire alarms. You can look at that two ways: 1 - "Bugger -that's about 3k off our budget spent for us." Yep it is. 2 - "Hmm. Using fire alarms lets us design without some of the traditional limitations which using a sprinkler set up lets us use. Since we're forced to do it, let's take the chance to be more creative". The backstory is that using sprinklers allows some of the fire safety requirements to be relaxed, so you can probably relax those anyway, and start thinking more out of the box from the start. (You need to check that that is actually the case in Welsh regs, but the example stands). And that applies to all sorts of things. Get a notebook and tape measure and your smartphone and nosey your way into all sorts of houses - from friends' homes to show homes to for sale homes to instagram, and go in with your design-head and look for things that interest you. Then by the time you finalise your design you will have a list of 587 ideas, and you will use 30 or 70 of them. And you'll be able to talk any bores to a standstill. Ferdinand

I see your point (p24 in your doc), and I bet it has been done to death in case-law. To me the rational interpretation is that something wholly behind a house should not be a "side extension", but that is not the case. Sometimes strange byways of Planning Law work well and sometimes not. Here - not. F

OP says that the stepped out bit is original. Point one third bullet here:

Off to a hosp appointment, but see page 28 in your doc. F

The Spinklers ! The Sprinklers ! (Code for: you may as well consider making it open plan ? . You will understand that one as you learn the ropes. ? ) Sprinklers inhabit the nightmares, and trigger the dreams, of self-builders in Wales. It's actually a really good example of how regs can guide your decisions and help you be more creative because of external limitations. I'll explain tomorrow evening when I am back from hospital treatment. Your Mission, should you chose to accept it, is to find out what is distinctive about how self-builders handle Fire Sprinklers and Fire Alarms in Wales.

My understanding is that the practice will be to use the main plane rather than the smaller plane, and I think here the distinction is clear - and it is well within the 4m limit. AIUI the interpretation may actually allow a further section projecting back to follow the extra bit using the same limit, but I would need to check the dot and tittle.

AIUI understand it the half width rule applies to side extensions not back extensions, but this is ironically more discussed on the other thread. Ie the wrong one ?.