FM2015

And simply because we have NEVER seen the outer leaf method specified or used, we "improved" what we have used. By continuing the insulation across the reveal, window placement is not limited to flush, and improves the quality of the envelope. Quite a few icfs offer this but in a less perfect way. But of course, I would say that. @jack I appreciate your comments and will add nothing further to this thread.

If this breaks any rules, let me know and will take down the post but I think a lot of people could benefit from knowing the following. I did try and ask but I didn't get much in response. Do you check reveal or flush reveal ICF openings? Well here at HQ, a fairly exposed location battered by all sorts of westerlies and precipitation, we've thought for a long time that check reveals are the way forward. I think Scotland arrived at a similar conclusion. We've used all sorts to create them, from timber to complicated EPS and XPS methods but nothing was simple. So we hit the drawing board and designed a check reveal panel that requires no special block cuts, no special prep, can be secured for the pour in many different ways, and provides a lip against which frames can be pushed to create that physical dogleg of a weather protection detail. Customised to suit all EPS and XPS block types and widths. All brands and manufacturers. And the patent is in the post. Super excited to be able to use it, super excited to let others use it. If you've got an ICF build on the way and your architect/regs/warranty team want check reveals and you want something that is effective and simple to install without creating a dumpy bag of offcuts, save this post and DM me your requirements. I'll wait for the ticking off message. Cheers, Dom

Entirely relative. You use around 60%less units but you have to factor in the cost of the wall plate and the conventional joist hangers and nails. We pretty much never use the Nudura system, especially for the xr35 block because it works out more expensive. Be that on time or materials. Best advantage of the Simpsons though is the bearing point around the perimeter. Can be achieved other ways but yet to use one I'd recommend. The other advice is book price and purchase price can be wildly different. Nearly 50% off when I ring the supplier.

Why didn't you use the Nudura retrofit brackets?

Simpson strong tie ICF ledger bracket. Install before pour, fits flush, can be spaced around alignment system. Only issue is if you're using the xr35 block which requires a bit of a fiddle solution using makeup panels and webs. Still less expensive than the nudura system for the xr35.

Refusing to advertise 🤣 But there's a number kicking about

Can you qualify "better mechanical strength"? Isn't lambda only a very small part of the overall calculation for sap? The EPS Vs XPS argument is mostly predicated on manufacturer sponsored research. Not going into that rabbit hole but generally speaking "facts" like the ones started do not paint the whole picture.

On nudura or a different ICF? Labc and nhbc have thrown some interesting curveballs for non-nudura installs.

What purpose is this membrane meant to be performing on the exterior of ICF exactly?

Surely your distributor should take them back.....if they're saleable?

Aspect Nubuild

Not going to lie, the TigerClaw is the Rolls Royce of EPS rasps and if you use it for a living, well worth the expense. The finish is beautifully fine whereas the alternatives, like those shown above require a lot more effort to achieve the same finish. They can leave a more "open" finish.

How'd it go? You use a pump or a hopper? Just curious about the hopper affair on the wall.

@NickfromwalesjJust trying to be fair.

Personally, I wouldn't build with woodcrete. I e if it was mine. Professionally, we have little to no desire to get involved. Recent history plays a part in that. A great self build product but it's not for us. It's less so that woodcrete has disbenefits and more that EPS/XPS alternatives have more benefits. A very specific example? Build a curve with woodcrete.

We use an EPS rasp and a leaf blower or handheld vacuum on each opening as required Refina do a tungsten carbide rasp with the awesome name of TigerClaw.

Adding to the above. Understanding that ICF is part of a wall system not the whole thing when it comes to structural warranties. Not all ICF systems can be covered by all renders for example. Different ICFs have different conditions for cladding, and different cladding attracts different warranty conditions.

Personally, rather than being brand specific, people who want an ICF build should be looking at the following: 1. Big one first, work with a warranty provider and lender who know about ICF. They will provide a steer. 2. Achieving latest sap regs does put emphasis on the walls achieving a certain wall value but sap is about the building as a system not a collection of discrete entities 3.diy or subcontractors. The same products don't necessarily apply due to experience Vs simplicity of product. Someone is still stacking a liquid vertically 4. Price point/performance 5.whole system cost. What additional benefits, cost, materials, labour does a product provide once built? Some icfs need battening off, others don't. Airtightness, window finishing, exterior finishing. It's not just about the blocks. I'm always going to lean towards eps/XPS based systems installed by a professional simply because pouring and pumping concrete IS dangerous and often it is experience which is the key mitigator. Yes, I am also in the trade but diyers are going to DIY, so they should appreciate the risks.

If you actually do a fair, like for like comparison, there is little difference for a good spec of building. Geography plays a part, for example in some areas, block layers aren't getting up for less than £2/ block. Timber frame might go up to wall plate quickly but to get to the same stage as an ICF gives you at wall plate, there another half dozen stages. ICF should be quicker to fit out, plasterboard etc with much less waste. Pound for pound the end product is better. So is it cheaper? Is it expensive? Is it quicker? Depends on where you are, what you're building, who's building it, are the follow on trades experienced, and critically do you want a Bentley made by BMW or Reliant. The Bentley is going to fall on the expensive side but who makes it determines the value for money.

Edpm tray with upstand stuck to cill Cill to extend wider than opening (horns) "Check" reveal for sides and head former by outer layer of ICF form or custom formed closer Silicone outside of frame to reveal Foam and airtight tape for inside junction. One aspect frequently overlooked is maintenance. Ask yourself this question: does my method of window fitting and sealing result in the need of a renderer if I need to replace a window? Or mason or carpenter for clad walls? The above method just needs a window fitter. A physical dog leg in the form of a structural check reveal will outlast all tapes. The above method is also the most similar to every other "conventional" build system. Therefore the initial fitting cost should be less expensive. Just my tuppeneth

You mean, your mortgage lender doesn't like EPS ICFs. You could always shop around for a mortgage and stick to your original plan. The alternative could be upping the spec of the cladding to a fire retardant variant. Have also heard that some high street lenders will lend in ICF but not hands on self builds. A self build with specialist contractors. That being said, at the moment, they can just make up/change the rules on a whim in response to the financial climate so who really knows!

Thermohouse do a roof system and I think Green Life Buildings do too. Not sure if these would work for you.

Not the best pictures but all I've got to hand.

That's in the manual??!! I appreciate that all this is going to get hidden but still. Practice, get the heat right for the blade type, don't melt more than required, 47mm deep plasterboard boxes give a neat finish and sparks love the extra space.

That's why it needs protection, not just from someone hanging a picture. Just watch a north American YouTube video on hot knifing and electrics....suffice to say, I wouldn't do it like that 🤦🏼