craig

@Monty Gerhardy Sorry I don't know you, I don't know your profession but you are obviously in the window industry. You come across as a very arrogant and rude man and I have no time for that, I may be wrong and I hope I'am. However, you are bringing this way off topic and in my view personal and I would kindly ask you to refrain from doing so. I'm also not going to get into any argument but your attack is not welcome.

Correct and I should have mentioned that, being the father of a disabled daughter. If memory serves me correctly the minimum is 1.5 square metres so the chair can turn.

Absolutely, not every window system suits everybody - the slim profiles is what a lot of people look for.

Wheelchair ramps are a max gradient of 1:15 (building regulations part m: 2004) so I would presume a similar slope away would be ideal.

The probem of windows being glazed from the external side I'm afraid. Most alu clad windows externally glazed, will require the cladding to be removed "if the cladding goes all the way to the end of the frame or it sits behind the the outer wall". Internally glazed in my view and others, are better options for maintenance and for security.

Head and cill Aura Plus Fixed Jambs

Rational AuraPlus - Tilt & Turn? Head and Cill Jambs

Of course. The difficulty is not knowing which system. Is it wet or dry sealed, is the glass glued or packed. You'll usually have about 4 to 6mm around the frame for packing (This is three different window systems for comparison) Regarding the triple glazed stained glass, it's one of those custom units and I have also tried in the past and baulked at the prices and advised customers if required, they will need to source it themselves (sorry).

Agreed I'm not here to advertise in anyway. Purely joined here to give assistance if I can and to participate.

No, the reason for this, is it's a quotation and usually will not cover this and usually irrelevant to a quote comparison. The points you raised are covered by indepenent 3rd party certificates in most circumstances and not covered in a quotation. No specific requirement but it is standard practice with most manufacturers and a safety aspect to toughen glass when the height is in those regions. As for the doors. You are making either an ill informed opinion or you have no experience of this issue. All units will be tested to a certain class / pascal rating. That particular system is tested to 1800 pascal rating which is in excess of 120mph wind speeds, the security class of the system is WK2 and 5 point locking. If you think a tunnel effect is implausible, then supply an alternative theory. As for being rubbish, that they are not - I assure you of that (check out my introduction for more information). Fact is, the wind pressure against the sash was forcing the sash away from the frame. So with the wind pressure increasing/decreasing over several hours it appears that has caused the sash to hit the frame by causing a couple mm gap and has been repeated over several hours has likely been the cause of the issue. It is the only explanation we can think of that would have caused it and without put the unit in a wind tunnel to test, the only logical explanation (from myself and several others). Again, not shown on a quotation and dealt with via certificates and therefor not always relevant for comparison checks. I never said it was. Therefor, please don't imply other wise. What I said was I specifically didn't mention Uw values, the main reason being they become extremely important within PHPP calculations for a PassivHaus where the space psi value can be the difference between a pass or a fail. Otherwise, it is not the sole reason for a customers choice but it is worth checking in the comparison and in hindsight should have been mentioned. Again, not covered within a quotation. This will be in certificates and installation/adjusment manuals and therefor not relevant to a quote comparison. All valid points but again, not covered under a quote comparison but some quotes will advise of the relevant BS/EN EN numbers on the quotes. Most customers will not be aware of these and it is the suppliers/manufacturers responsibilty to supply this information. As well as supplying a performance declaration for all units supplied within any installation.

We've supplied internal window cills/reveals and trims in the same timber/finish as the windows on a few occasions. Have you considered asking the window supplier if they could make them to match?

Oh I've quoted projects and been £10K / £20K + more expensive than others. Its not til you sit down are able to compare competitors quotes you can see the difference. One particular one springs to mind of a 6.6 metre lift and slide door one fixed, one slide at 3m height, ours was double the price but it's not til you look at the details you realise the difference. Triple glazed you are looking at half a tonne + for the sliding element. Standard gearing doesn't cut the mustard so needs to be double gearing/electrical assistance. It was also a 90 degree corner and I worked out a specific detail for the corner which coupled to a standard fixed window. You can't just couple a 92mm frame to a 217mm frame on a corner detail. Its only when you look at these things you see why.

I thought I would put a post together for those that are looking for windows, replacement or new build. As someone who deals with final order placing / final quote discussions. One of the things that crosses my desk on regular basis, is that the "other supplier" is more cost effective. Which leads me to ask myself "more cost effective against what" are you comparing apples for apples? When I ask people to compare, what we generally explain is to look at the following (see below) if they are not willing to supply a copy of the quote without prices. Product - is the product similar. For example are you comparing a Timber Aluminium cladded window with a Timber Aluminium cladded window? Glazing - Is the glazing on offer from both suppliers comparable? Is it double glazed v's triple glazed for example or is it float glass v's toughened or laminate? Check that doors have toughened/laminated glazing Check that windows within 300mm of a door have toughened/laminated glazing Check that windows below 800mm from the finish floor have toughened/laminated glazing Check that windows that are 1400mm in height or above for toughened/laminated glazing. Most suppliers will start to consider toughened / laminated from 1400mm onwards, some will still be float glass. Check triple glazed glass units. Some suppliers will only toughen the inner and outer panes and leave the middle pane as float glass, others will toughen all 3 panes (I recommend all 3 panes as toughened) when required. Why? quick example is from experience, a customer in the north west of Scotland had the middle pane as float glass in french doors, the doors are recessed with wall on either side. It effectively became a wind tunnel. What happened is during high winds, the door sashes had that much wind pressure constantnly, that the door sash was pushed away from the frame slightly and a rattle effect occurred (only thing I could think would cause this to happen). As a result the middle pane (float glass) shattered. This required the whole sash to be replaced, as the glass was glued into the frame on that particular product. Timber - Is the timber comparable, are both using spruce/larch/oak/pine etc.? Are any of the products finger jointed as standard (which is more cost effective versus fixed timber, but not as aesphetically pleasing). Is the timber cut from from one section of wood or is it individually glue laminated timber? Ug values - A 0.5Ug can be quoted by suppliers but the costs vary dramatically. One of the reasons for this can be the glass make up and the gas that is being used. Some quotes won't tell the gas being used but it's safe to assume that if it's 48mm glazing it is Argon. Pay attention to the spacer distance also, not for cost but if the spacer is above 18mm, convection can occur of the gas filling (gas moves around in the unit). Hinging - Are the hinges concealed or are they exposed? Door Hinging - Pay close attention as suppliers will have quoted standard framing on doors, others may have increased the widths of the jambs to increase the space available at the hinging for plastering behind. RAL Colours externally - are the quoted RAL colours the same? Internal colours - have they quoted the same? Some will offer the standard colours such as a clear lacquer, others will have them painted - does this have any impact on price comparison. Sizes - have any of the units been split, due to not being able to achieve the size required? Some suppliers will not be able to do large sizes, others will be. Look out for compromises. Don't always look at the end figure and immediately reject a quote as being to high, compared to the others. Most suppliers will have the supply price first, then additional items such as window cills, compriband, membrane, installation etc. which are optional to the quote and not necessarily required but may be included in the total cost at the end. Most self builders like to take on the mantra of doing the whole build, others would like to leave this to the supplier or builder and or source their own materials if supply only. What is being offered with the installation service, are the installation options / costs comparible to each other? Who takes responsibility for the windows upon arrival? Generally speaking most suppliers who are installing, should be taken responsibility from the moment the windows leave the factory, to the moment the windows/doors have been installed, sign off. If supply only, the responsibilitygenerally passes to the client once the offload commences. So it is important to document the windows before offload, during offload and once offloaded. The manufacturer will normally have documentation / pictures before departing the factory, it makes life easier on whether a claim with the haulage company or whether a claim with the supplier is required (both should go to the supplier who should deal with it). Warranty - how long is the warranty, what does it cover? Last but not least, is the quote comparible? Have the suppliers referenced things the same way or are have the drawings been scaled and then referenced by the supplier (this happens a lot when no window schedule exists)? A lot of architects don't create window schedules for some reason (one the major parts of a build and most costly aspects) and problems of missing windows can be encountered, due to the elevations not always showing "hidden" windows which can be seen on floor plans. Some suppliers can miss this, which then impacts that quote. Hopefully some people find this useful, of not apologies for the long read

@NSS That's unfortunate about the neighbours. What has annoyed myself and my neighbours, is the client is trying to do this on the cheap and calling in favours and doing most work out of hours (at least he was). The first building went up (other builders, clients) was purposely built using old plans, where the patio doors at the back had been refused and we reported it but the council ended up approving it on an amendment. Builders have obviously done this in the past, several checks are in place before kit goes to production. In our case you can understand neighbours concerns.

You are most likely building in a residential/built up area? We have private builds being erected at the back of our house. I have no problem within building but I do have an issue with two factors. One the ground is to high and the Groundworks could a come down 2 / 3 metres to reduce ridge height and help with privacy. Two, we all live in disabled housing for various reasons. Privacy is a huge part but so is peace and quite. We have had to report contractors and clients to environmental health. We've had them turn up at 6, start the generator, cement mixer etc. and not be offsite until 9pm and working til 5 on a Saturday. Common courtesy should mean the clients/builders tap the door and ask if we mind, explaining they need to do some work. Would we? Of course not, but they are rude, ignore the rules and have been burning rubbish on site and toileting outwith the porta loos. These rules are there for a reason but if you are in a residential/ built up area, ask the neighbours. They generally wouldn't mind if explained.

It's obviously a bit late but you should have a word with one of the local building inspectors (Gwynn) who built his own house in Kirkwall about his windows. You have a very nice project.

Just to add to this, frame thickness/depth is important for the frame value (Uf). So larger/chunkier frames tend to be better performing. However, pretty much no matter what window you are using. A good detail will be over insulating the frame externally. So you can hide the frame on outward or inward opening windows. This will leave the opening sash only or a little bit of frame as well. One thing to consider with this method, is if the aluminium cladding extends to the end of the frame, ask the supplier what they do about cold bridging. Most will cut back the aluminium on site, others have systems that don't have the aluminium to the edge of the frame as standard. Internally, you can hide the entire frame of a fixed window but very advisable to keep the glazing bead area visible (if internally glazed) for maintenance reasons (i.e broken glass). An opening window dependent on system, will need a certain amount of frame visible for the window to open fully.

Depends on how the calculate the costs, what equipment is required, does the installation cost include transport and accommodation costs, compriband, membrane etc. These additional items need to be fitted and add cost onto an installation which is not just foam filled for example. I'll be honest, I have looked at numerous comparison quotes and wonderered how on earth they can offer it for that price and then questioned, how good is the installation service/after care.

That is the exact reason we prefer to supply the full package, we will only offer warranty on the window/doors. If a fault develops, who is to blame, what's caused the issue, how has it happened. We can usually tell if it's the result of install or misuse, however, it can cause falls outs with contractors/clients which we wish to avoid.

It depends really. standard windows (square, rectangular) - 15 working days production. Add a sliding door 20 days production. Add shaped windows 30 days. Add entrance doors, 8 to 12 weeks. Special requests can vary but these are all standard production timescales. Add 10 days for invoicing and payments being received/ transferred and 7 days delivery. We can be on site within as little as 4 weeks (tight but possible), just depends on the order. Generally we are 6 to 8 weeks, you also need to take into account time to package items for exporting (48/72 hours).

My middle aged daughter was born with a rare condition called SMA-LED with cortical dysplasia. She was the only child in the world with this particular variant, so the car we have is a Nissan X-Trail but about to switch to a wheelchair accessible Ford Torneo or similar. However, I'm also about to buy a Nissan Elgrand. @jack sorry to hear the difficulties experienced and your choice to go elsewhere. We are different from others, we tend to send out as accurate as possible quotations. So that nothing is missed and the costs we supply shouldn't really vary. I've seen some competitor like for like quotes and wonder at times how they get away with sending them out. We are also very keen to seen proposed section details as early as possible. Why? Basically some details may need wider frame / cladding details, may not be optimised and we may need to run thermal calculations on the detail and supply alternative proposals. We are also not scared to run away from challenges, if we think we can achieve a solution we will. We priced a glass cupola 5m (domed) glass to glass 8 sections. The fixtures and and fittings to be gold plated and a 500KG chandelier to be hung from it as well. We were on the extreme verge of technical possibilities but we did it, didn't win it in the end as the client changed his mind in a big way. We can't win everything but we do try to and we do try to be different from other suppliers.

Agreed, they are one of the best kits and companies to deal with around.

Sorry to pop into the conversation so late to this but as supplier used to urge clients to go with French doors or a lift slide door (used to anyway). I wouldn't recommend tilt and slide doors in the UK. People just don't know how to use them and it causes more call outs because of incorrect use. However, if you want bifolds in the future or anyone else. There is a great bifold door supplier from Germany (won't mention name as I'm not wanting to promote them PM for details). They are Passive House certified and suitable and far ahead of any other bi fold system I know of.

Excellent, always look forward to receiving schedules.

Yeah, we can't get on it for the kids