craig

Hi @James1994, did you get anywhere with your supplier?

It’s generally caused by thermal stress, it is reduced by toughening the glass on the middle pane but that also adds costs.

There is still to this day details that come across my desk and I look at them and know instantly, that it has been the architects maybe even the clients last things on their mind. Windows and doors are integral to the thermal envelope and airtight layer. Without them, you just have a big hole in the wall(s) and airtight layer. https://passipedia.org/planning/thermal_protection

The regulations do not state you must have trickle vents, you must have a form of background ventilation and that "can" be buy opening the window for ventilation. It is down to how the regulations are interpreted by the BCO. They shouldn't be, the thermal envelope should always be number 1 on the list and that includes the windows.

30mm to 50mm, no less than 30mm is recommended.

Did the install costs include compriband, airtightness tape? As they aren't cheap, dependant on meterage you'd be looking at somewhere between £600/£1200 on approx.

It's worst than that, it was 3 guys, the youngest was very new to it and just held things:-). That’s just nuts, £666 per man per day. Sorry but they’ve ripped you off.

Doesn’t surprise me, I price installs daily. Costs vary for numerous reasons.

How many men? How many units? Being conservative with figures, I’m assuming 4 men x 2 days £2,400 labour at £300 per man per day. If I’m reading you right, you’re saying that’s just labour? If right and 4 men, that’s £500 a day each at £62.50 an hour. The Crane was extra and they charged VAT? That’s an insane price, even if it included travel and accommodation you should be looking at circa £3k.

Most definitely.

As a supplier, that's a question you would be best to ask others.

You're being left to paint and seal the windows, so if at a later date something happens to the window and the frame starts growing fungus for example (it happens more than you think). You'll have no warranty. Your back pocket will be stung for the replacements. Factory finished - they are then responsible for the product and if they install as well, the complete package. Don't buy a product that is putting these issues on your doorstep. Factory finished will have an initial warranty period, with the upkeep of the window (i.e. painting) of it recommended every x years.

Take a picture from the side looking along the underside of the opening section. I’m intrigued as to what’s going on. The gasket would be on the frame, it interlocks on the ribs. I’m not saying go to them guns blazing but certainly ask the question. I could be wrong but it does look questionable. “Why does the drawing look this but my windows do not appear to have this gasket?” It may be something in nothing and a straight forward answer.

Pretty clear to me, that the drainage is at the front from the section detail and picture, that water that pools at the back has got nowhere to go and in a closed position should not be getting anywhere near the inner aspect of the frame. I have included a snapshot of the detail below and the blue line and water drops is what is on the drawing for drainage (available in PDF & DWG here). It is an aluminium system, it shouldn't be of great concern but at the same time. It shouldn't be happening, it's definitely not what is designed to happen according to this detail. My biggest question is this though and please remember, I'm coming at this with knowledge of windows and doors but I'm not familiar with the Origin window. From the picture you have shown three ribs are clearly visible all the way along, on top of that should be what appears to be a gasket. The picture doesn't show this at all but it does show locking keeps (however, I highly doubt the section represents the locking keeps). I have highlighted the thermally broken detail in green (shown the three ribs) and above the gasket. Is this missing (orange section)? I could be way off the mark, as I'm looking at a picture and section detail and as mentioned a caveat of I don't know the system but it looks like it is. If yes, then that would explain the problem. If yes, then the window is only sealing on outer edge and inner edge and not in the middle as shown in the section detail.

What's the model of window supplied?

From what I can see in the pictures, it looks like they are using FM330 PU foam from Illbruck (could be Soudal), it looks as though they have not missed any spots. I do not know if they have used any compriband which is great for reducing sound as the sound doesn't just go through the window, it goes past the window (i.e. between frame and building). You'll have little to no foam at the packers (and is normal) but it is where the compriband comes into play. What I see in above pictures doesn't look bad at all, actually a decent application but the foam needs tidied up now that it has stopped expanding before plastering. It will make a difference in sound reduction. When are they coming back to finish? You're correct, although I have just sat down in front of the PC. Opened emails and literally I got a notification and seen you had tagged me. I thought aww naw, what have I done now

Thanks for the feedback, it’s what I thought it would be and we aren’t going any further with it. We are on instagram though but I need to get better at utilising social media.

I'am yes, that's my thinking behind it. More like a pinterest type thing for people to actually get ideas and a yellow pages type aspect.

Genuine question to all the self builders / renovators out there. Did you/are you using houzz? Did it influence you in anyway on suppliers from the recommendations? Did you end up going with a supplier as a result of houzz? We have been discussing this today with them and it's a big investment in the current climate and a 12 month commitment, it was only covering approx 5 regions not even the whole of the UK (circa £4K for the 5 regions) which is not something we want to do but if it yields results then of course it makes sense. Obviously interested to hear people's thoughts.

Let me know, I can have our subcontractor attend who is based in Plymouth. He'd charge for the call out but would give honest feedback.

Isn't that the truth. You try to remember everything, you ensure your guys are prepared and one simple tick box can cause a multitude of sins.

You need an independent inspection, it's difficult to be critical or not, without seeing things in person. I'm not 100% familiar with the Rehau window system, but your section detail is wrong from the pictures I'm looking at. It's for an outward opening window and your door is inward opening and the window looks like a fixed window. From what I can gather the highlighted section in yellow on a window should be siliconed in, as the drainage is at the front edge & doesn't cause any issues. What does cause issues, is these cill extensions if they are not sitting on a solid base, if floating in the air and some stands on them the they will flex. The silicon will detach and issues you see in image 1 occur. I don't know the window / door system used but presume S706 - if yes, then here's the door detail. You need a 3rd party visit, you need the installer/supplier to agree to this and to cover the costs of this. They will generate a report for you they will not tell you any findings there and then but will happily chat with you, where are you located?

The regulations do not “insist” on trickle vents in windows, what it refers to is controllable background ventilation and talks about trickle vents as that’s the most common method. If you have for example “night ventilation” within the window, which is common in European tilt and turn windows. You can argue your case. You can also argue your case on how that background ventilation is occurring. Reference Scottish Building Regulations https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-technical-handbook-2019-domestic/3-environment/3-14-ventilation/ Reference English Building Regulations Approved Document F https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/468871/ADF_LOCKED.pdf @Oz07 happens more often than you think. They are never checked, they are eye balled.

Thank's @Bitpipe size is relative to what is comfortably operation wise. We can do 1 fixed 1 slide, 6490 x 2650. The max sash weight for the sliding section is going to be 400KG. You can increase this weight and therefore the size, by using a double gearing setup and or electrical operation but electrical operation adds a fair amount of cost. External venetian blinds have a maximum span width of 4000mm, so the above sliding door would need two external blind boxes split equally. A lift and slide 4 fields (2 slide, 2 fixed) 12850 x 2650, again same rules apply and would need 4 blind boxes. The biggest issue that needs to be taken into account, is the span. Sliding doors are not weight bearing in anyway and cannot have deflection from above compressing the head of the slider. So the deflection in steel needs to be taken into account.

95% leaning towards a ventilation issue rather than a unit failure.