ToughButterCup

Dave, can you find that post? I've tried fror 30 minutes and can't. If you do, could you link to it here. It's relevant to our discussion. Maybe anyone else like to give us a hand.? Its the one where J takes the Council to task for inappropriate peeping-tommery (tamsinery).

Off out to mix some concrete and get rid of all this anger that's bubbling around.

Welcome ? Yer pushin' on an open door there Jimmie ... This site, and the effort and generosity of many has ; saved us a lot of money, boosted our morale, made me smile , informed many conversations I have had with others, but most of all - walked with us. There's a palpable sense of community. That community is made all the stronger by appropriate levels of sharing of your own stuff . Losing my trousers was just about appropriate sharing - almost not, though. From another Ian, welcome.

And thats a bull's eye son. Go to the top of the class. This is what happened to me: Lovely lady from Council visits and calls it habitable (occupancy). She tells the VAT Monster. After an absence of 18months (refuse to come round) BCO pops round " - *kin' *ell Ian, you need this this and that, get it done pronto " Ian: so it's not habitable then? No, not in this state. Get this that and the other done. (Two suicide doors and other bits - fire OK) But until I get my VAT refund back I can't afford it .... VAT monster asks - DESPITE THE ASKED FOR RELEVANT, ACCURATE EVIDENCE ALREADY SUBMITTED - what did you do between occupancy and the VAT refund application? Every single dated invoice is there for the Monster to read. In other words lining themselves up to deny the VAT reclaimed between occupancy and VAT refund application Put a Notice on your property denying access to one and all without written permission from you. Put time lapse cameras up and make sure you maintain them.( @Jeremy Harris has a blog post / cautionary tale / normal post about it somewhere. And follow @ProDave's advice.

@pocster, here be DRAGONS. I respect @newhome's opinion: she's highly ikely to be right. But likely isn't certainty. What are you going to do when a Council Offical turns up on site - sniffs around and says that in his / her opinion you have a HABITABLE dwelling? (see @joe90's post earlier) Thats one of the keys now - not COMPLETION or Entry Into The Valuation List. It's that undeclared shift of focus from one to other that @newhome flags up in her excellent post here. (in the first few lines) The HMRC form VAT431NB only mentions Completion or entry into The Valuation List. It does not mention declaring the building status as HABITABLE as a key date in HMRC's decision-making process. Here's the workflow that happened in my case. Just a list of facts - no emotion. (I can already hear @ProDave wincing, sucking his teeth and playing bagpipes upside down - no kilt) Lockdown 1 has just finished : muggins is digging his foul drains by hand . Very nice lady from Wyre Valuation Office, clipboard, walks on site (Oh how i wish I'd taken @Jeremy Harris advice - the HERAS and notice argghhhh) We had an intial conversation about when / if I'd moved in : spare you the details We agreed - substantiated by a follow up email - that I'd tell her when we were 'in' Target date was january 2021 ish. Difficult to estimate because of COVID and DIY Max. Second visit of nice lady late 2020: we agree a move in date of December 1st 2020. Loads still to do on house. I question her closely on the criteria applied for her decision, and accept her judgement. Week after April 21st 2021, nice lady writes to me with a copy of the Entry into Valuation List (from the Valuation Office) , that document is dated 21st April 2021. That is the date mentioned in the HMRC Guidance (pages 6 and 7) as the date when the clock startes ticking in terms of submitting the reclaim form. July 2021 I submit my VAT claim This week, the HMRC write to me asking me to list the jobs I have done since December 2020. @Temp agrees with my suspicion: they are lining themselves up to disallow the VAT reclaimed between 1st December 2020 and July 2021 (submission date for the form) The issue I would like to draw to everyone's attention is that the form VAT431NB does not mention the date at which a house is accepted as being inhabited (called occupancy) as a new key date used by HMRC . Occupancy is an additional key indicator they now use . My objection is that they do not tell you that on the form. That's the dragon referred to above. They don't tell ya. Had it not been for @newhome's alertness and depth of study, we'd all still be in the dark. Now for a bit of emotion. The level of laziness and lack of customer focus on the part of an organsiation the size of HMRC is simply inexcusable. That kind of behaviour engenders - justifies almost - mendacity on the part of customers. Hence @ProDave's post (I think) '... never admit you're occupying the house you've built' until after completion. And why he's even now playing the bagpipes upside down somewhere in Bonnie Scotland. Can't take a joke? Don't start a self build eh? Honest. Just don't start.

Pintrest and google helped me a lot. Do an image search.

I have just had a conversation with the BC0 about exactly the some issue. Apparently there is a maximum of three month time limit between habitation and Sign off. According to our Bco the house should be signed off 3 months after habitation. I'm afraid I laughed long and hard at that . Maybe too long and hard. Anyone heard of that ?

Some readers will have read the background to this thread, if you haven't here's a Speed Read; My VAT refund application has been questioned because HMRC appears to think I applied late. I applied citing our house' Entry in the Valuation List instead of a BCO issued Completion Certificate. The Entry in the Valuation list is dated December 20202, the letter telling me that is dated April 2021. So it took 5 months for the Valuation Office to tell me that our house had been entered on that listing. Applicants for the VAT refund have three months to apply. The date of the letter telling me I applied late was dated April 2021. I applied in July 2021. HMRC are questioning why I delayed 4 months (March to July) before applying. To answer that question, all HMRC had to do was read the letter from the Valuation Office - submitted with all the other evidence requested. The full discussion is here Its worth reading because it might help you understand the meanings that HMRC apply to the words 'usually' and the significance of the Date of Habitation rather than the Date of Completion. Yesterday I rang both HMRC Helpline and the LA Valuation Office to ask for clarification. HMRC The call was taken by a call handler: he noted the issues and said he would relay my questions to the relvant team. He also scheduled a discussion with the relevant team for 27th October , pm. Valuation Office Wyre Borough I got straight through to the Valuation Office, and the Officer there was quite clear: she had the timeline of events infront of her and agreed that the date of notification was April 2021 , the Date Of Entry into the List was 1st December 2021. I thought that getting on to the relevant people straight away was - these days - worthy of note. COVID notwithstanding. There are several other issues bubbling away beneath the surface: i'll post separately about those later. Lesson Take @newhome's advice seriously. Ring the HMRC and talk to them if you move in BEFORE your house is completed. The key things to ascertain are; The date of habitation and The Completion date HMRC are tending to take the date of habitation as the key date. Not the date of Completion AND THEY DO NOT TELL YOU THAT IN THE ADVICE NOTES ON THE FORM Read @newhome's pinned thread here By now, I've learned to Take-A-Joke. 'S Friday innit: 8 hours till International Party Night . Patten Arms 6pm. Buy me a pint please. To be continued ......

Thanks very much indeed.

Excellent effort . @Onoff will promptly design the next version. But he'll never finish building it. @pocster will carry on where Clive left off. And build one out of glass. Free glass.

Yes. Yes. All part of the price. A small monitor was placed outside the nearest building (happened to be our kitchen) and the feed from that was relayed to the company office. I made my own monitor. Cost : nowt

Agree with Mark. Angle grinder . hammer , new hangers twisted nails , eye protection . It'll be fun.

The reply to @pocster immediately above applies. BUT. I recognise the importance of the pinned post written by @newhome A Guide to the VAT Reclaim Process , where she says The difference in our case is we haven't finished the build (and won't for some time to come) but have still applied for the VAT refund before '... the finish according its original plans ...' (HMRC VAT Form VAT431NB; Notes, page 6 and 7). In simple terms, once we were informed of the date of occupancy, we have tried to honour the letter of the guidance.

Yes, @pocster , you were asleep as usual ?. The BCO route is one way of indicating you are finished. However, there are several others as detailed below Here's the relevant bit from the form you have to complete; This is the key issue The 3 months will usually run from the date of the document you’re using as your completion evidence. Here's a photo Oh, that word 'usually' (above): needs to be read in conjunction with the notes provided in the main VAT thread.

No, they haven't refused it. Yet. They are asking why I applied in July given that the start date for the 3 months was in December of the year before. They are also asking us to list the items purchased between the Effective Date of Listing and the date when I applied. (First week of July 2021) The answer is it; took 5 months to tell me that - between them - the LA and the Valuation Office took 5 months to tell me that the official date for Occupancy was 1st december 2020. I was told on or just a bit later than 21st April 2021.

In our case that acceptable evidence is the Notice of Making a New Entry into the Valuation List ( rather than the Completion Certificate because we're skint) That Notice took 5 months to get to us: 2 months too late to apply.

How to set up a failed VAT reclaim application process in one easy lesson (pay attention at the back there please .... @pocster ) In brief: make the date of Entry in the Valuation List four months before you (the Valuation Office) tell both the Local Authority and the Council Tax payer have an HMRC employee who is asking why I applied more than three months after the date I was told of the listing , and 8 months after the actual listing was made by the Valuation Office, but less than 3 months after the date that the letter telling us arrived. It took the Valution Office 5 months to tell both the LA and me of the listing Another way of saying the same thing is : disqualify the claimant from applying by not telling them about the listing for 5 months. As far as HMRC are concened, that's already two months late Facts: Date of Entry to the Valuation List (called the Effective Date of Alteration) : 1st December 2020 From that date, the clock startes ticking: you have three months from that date to get your claim in. Date which the Authority (Wyre) and I were told of the listing : after the 21st April 2021 (letter dated 21st April 2021) - I make that 5 months later To add insult to injury the HMRC are asking me to list the (planned) works carried out between 1st December and the date I applied for the refund. They already have that data: all they need to do is look at the spreadsheet submitted: each entry is dated. And all entries are listed in date order. All the employee has to do is read the words and numbers. Which makes me suspicious. Are they lining themselves up to deduct the VAT claimed for items purchased between 1st December 2020 and the date I applied for the reclaim? Can't take joke? Honestly, there's no need to submit a VAT reclaim. Nobody forces ya! Make life easier, do without the money -

I had no idea that some semi idiot-proof scaffolding (Kwik Stage, CupLock) would be such an excellent investment. Add a few well -stacked and scrubbed boards, and four well-oiled wheels and you are away. Heavy - yes, but thats what wives and children are for. Somehow, most months, I have a little less scaffolding than I had last month. Twice a year locals come and ask to borrow some. Not all of it comes back. I have never leant the scaff ladder out. I just can't ever consider being without enough scaffolding to work safely anywhere on the house. For a DIY Max build, the business case for some kwikstage or cuplock (or similar) is compelling

And the weather forecast for you is .... (I suspect) cold northerlies for a bit: no energy in the air. Dehumdify then.

And when will that be? I ask because opening the doors and windows is cheaper and extremely effective.

Looks like a job for our cat. He'd sort that in a day.

Exactly what I did.... ours have wheels on , used for all sorts of jobs on the site. Well worth the money.

@olivia982, believe me we try hard to reduce waste or to reprocess it ourselves. But it takes time and money and planning. And on DIY Max, there's not much 'space' for that. There are loads of small things you can recycle yourself; wood sheeting, screws, various bigger bits of timber, post stuff on Freegle, FB and other sites, but that doesn't amount to much. We give away wood off cuts to local families with wood burners. If we have skip I put up a notice advertising that we are keen to recycle. Locusts descend fairly pronto. We used several hundred tonnes of MoT1 (thats at least partly recycled stuff) for the base, and our wood block ICF system uses (or at least used to use) recycled wood. In all, I recon we've used at least 500 tonnes of recycled material (400 for the base +100 for the blocks). We will also be recycling our own heat soon: (MVHR) A lot more could be done.

Love ya digga man .... I think our water table is similar to yours, but your ground looks problematic. We used wooden shuttering for a while, but I gave up on that: unwise, but we were lucky. Being the courageous man I am, sent SWMBO down the 'ole to see how deep it was ? As you can see, the shuttering was a little on the light side. And I did bring her a cup of tea while she was down there. It was the one job with a digger that truly scared me. Had I used your shuttering system, it would have been so much easier. I chained concrete fence posts to the edge of the tank (to act as ground anchors) , lowered the assembly in, and then concreted the lot in. Years later my shoulders still ache from that job. (Couldn't get a mixer lorry anywhere near it)

The German site talks about " Wir bauen Gesundheit" We build health (as in wellness) My (German) reaction to that is hmmmm .... Some German bread has been rebranded as (in translation) Protein Bread. Rye breads and the like ... same stuff as it always was - its just that normal bread isn't the mood of the moment In short Eco in this context appears to me to be a reaction to the mood of the moment. Eco is where its at. Huff and Ecofritz and others from Germany have always built to higher than UK insulation standards - because it's 'kin cold there in winter. Triple glazing is the norm....