Zoot's Extension- advice needed.

[zoothorn]

@PeterW edited photos, & added 3rd property overview.

 

Pencil = my only difficult cnr the whole design rests on (in order to follow a straight line from house -and- be able to fit in my 1st knock-thru door, extending enough outwards for a decent sized room -and- leaving enough distance to road: a ton of time choosing this point!).

 

thanks zoot

[PeterW]

Seems ok - whats the issue..??

 

 

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

Seems ok - whats the issue..??

 

 

 

What are you referring to, my difficult corner?

[PeterW]

Yeh - doesn’t seem difficult ..?? You’ve got to get across to the the road side to get the door to open, but you’ve left a side step which means you don’t have to line up existing render and potentially wonky old walls. 

 

Have you also considered a step down into the new room to give you headroom .. looking at the slope you could drop the storeroom floor a bit more. 

[zoothorn]

Well, re. the tricky corner point. I have BIG worries about this. Afaik, by reading the Haynes book the next step, having got PP, is to either myself or my 'architectural consultant'.. to submit a much more detailed plan, to the building regs dept. I need to establish if this is correct.

 

If correct, the position of this cnr relative to the road is my big concern. Prior replies from Onoff suggested that it had to be 5m away (if built in TF), or 2m away.. I couldn't ascertain. IE: I don't know if by getting agreed PP, whether this cnr point has -definitely- been given the green light.. or not at all & has to be 'agreed' by another department (then another?). Whether I am waiting, or whether I don't need to wait. To be, or not to be..

 

This is typical: the process prior to starting still being a total mystery (even having a detailed book to hand).

[PeterW]

Ok ... not wanting to be harsh here, either read the book and follow that, or take the advice from on here, but don’t try and mix the two and expect us to adjudicate. 

 

You don’t need to apply with plans for an extension, you can use a building notice. It’s quicker and if the builder knows his stuff then you will meet regs no problem. 

 

All of that design is standard detail - you could nearly download the lot off the web to submit to be honest. 

 

There is no problem being 2m from the road with a render timber frame - if there was, most of the big builders would be screwed by now. The render board plus render meets regs for fire purposes. 

 

What is needed is some design on that roof - it will need a steel to support it if you want it open to the apex or at least a pair of purlins that will cut into that upstairs space if you are not careful. Alternative is some clever use of attic trusses, but that gives problems with the window in the side wall.  I’d be inclined to get rid of that and replace with a couple of velux windows as the big window at the end is more than enough light into that small room.  

 

 

[zoothorn]

Hi PeterW (not harsh at all) whether or not in order to obtain PP, I went the route I did or could've gone a different route (I had no idea, at the time the process was done any other way than: get an architect > draws design > submits for PP).. its done now. I wish I'd known of this site 1.5 yrs ago before I got the 'architectural consultant' on, & could have done alot myself maybe saving me £1k min.. but its in the past. Id never have known I needed a "bat survey" so at least that's one thing I benefitted from (at a cost of £600 mind you).

 

All I know is I have PP, but I don't know what this actually means. I thought it meant "Congratulations/ design approved/ you can build!'. Tbh I still don't know if this is true, because according to the book it is not a green light I have now to face 'building regs' via a very detailed drawing > & submit this (which surely is where the AC earns his money).

 

The details of the roof etc, I'm a way off establishing- I'm still waiting on a quote (probably another month min wait). I just need to get over my current hurdles. Can I start? if not what do I do to get the go-ahead?

[zoothorn]

I'm only using the book to give me a rough guide, I'm not following it to a T. Its useful like this. I know & trust the judgements of those like yourself who've helped me out.. I don't know the writer of the book.

 

I just need to establish two things for the time being. What wall method to use. What I need to do within the 'rules' process to forward my build.

 

Thanks, zoot

[zoothorn]

22 hours ago, PeterW said:

Yeh - doesn’t seem difficult ..?? You’ve got to get across to the the road side to get the door to open, but you’ve left a side step which means you don’t have to line up existing render and potentially wonky old walls. 

 

Have you also considered a step down into the new room to give you headroom .. looking at the slope you could drop the storeroom floor a bit more. 

 

Hi Peter- yes a step down is part of the plan, advised by the 'architectural consultant'. No door on road side, its on opposite/ house front side.

 

Re-reading your ^ posts, I think I understand what you mean re. roof. I just assumed the upstairs room to be "open to apex", no idea this was anything but normal. I never, ever wanted a flat celing across just above my head: this would ruin the room.

 

Ok so if I want room2 'open to apex' can you expand why I couldn't have the side window too, & the basic build difference.. any disadvantages to this 'open' design? (can it be built as strongly? the weather will pummel the room often side-on).

 

I'm glad you spotted this thanks- I would've no doubt cracked on just assuming this was to be. 1st major bullet dodged I think.. why the AC didn't pick up on this tho/ who knows.

 

 

 

[PeterW]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok so if I want room2 'open to apex' can you expand why I couldn't have the side window too, & the basic build difference.. any disadvantages to this 'open' design? (can it be built as strongly? the weather will pummel the room often side-on).

 

You can but you need steel in the roof to do that as a full cut roof is needed. 

 

18 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

yes a step down is part of the plan,

 

I mean from bedroom to the study area. 

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

You can but you need steel in the roof to do that as a full cut roof is needed. 

 

 

I mean from bedroom to the study area. 

 

Understand roughly, but what is a full cut roof? (prefabricated/ lowered on via crane?). If steel (RSJ's woud that be) does this mean timber frame construction is therefore ruled out- I'm trying to visualise where these steels would be, onto what they might sit onto.

 

Also thought of a (small) step down into room2 myself. I wonder if a "compromised" roof could be considered: ie a ceiling, but pushed up high.. like the cross member of an "A" shape?

Edited May 30, 2019 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

On 30/05/2019 at 09:42, PeterW said:

 

 

Yes understood- I just called my BCO (nice & patient & helpful too, thank god!) who says BRegs application NOT yet made: & I could do myself, or my AC do it.. OR (& I'm not quite following this option) as you alluded to PeterW, I can get BRegs approved (or something instead of BRegs?) via a 'building notice', & mentioning my builder 'he knew very well'. Whether this means me apply via this route, or my builder, I ran out of steam trying to understand.

 

So at the mo I'm waiting on a quote. But have I done this too early, or too late? & when do I apply for BRegs? IE if I am still slightly redesigning the 'open apex' aspect to room2 (as I had no idea this just wasn't to be done on my submitted PP application) & with more wall info perhaps choosing wood cladding instead now.. am I effectively starting the whole process again?

 

 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW I spoke to PP re. possible minor 3 changes: cladding, slightly longer overall (250 cm), & open apex. A non-material ammendment needed which I know how/ done one b4 (& critically- doesn't need go to n'bors to judge: big plus factor). Open apex redo n/a for PP.

 

Good. So now I'm in a better position to slightly re-consider the design. And once (I hope) PP ok, I can consider drawing BRegs application- as its a simple design/ & I have an art background of sorts (why Im not so good on rules & protocol)- although as it is so simple, & as my BCO knows my builder 'very well indeed'.. I wonder if the Building Notice avenue is appropriate. I'll ask next time I hear from my builder- his advice is good.

 

 

[Gone West]

Sounds like progress has been made, that's good.

[zoothorn]

I have a nice n'bor said he'd dig trenches £25/ hr (his mini-digger). He's 71 but did his own for his TF build small house, useful eg just a few doors up (vertical weatherboard cladding idea), so is capable. And he's having a word with local chap he got to do his groundwork.

 

So I hopefully can £save a chunk on my builder's quote for this stage of the build.

 

So I'm waiting on this damn quote. Approaching a month now since I asked, just a few additions to a quote he gave me already (scaffold, g'work, doors & windows). How long should am I expected to wait? as a customer I feel if I hurry him, he may get the hump & whack up quote.

 

 

[Roundtuit]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

So I'm waiting on this damn quote. Approaching a month now since I asked, just a few additions to a quote he gave me already (scaffold, g'work, doors & windows). How long should am I expected to wait? as a customer I feel if I hurry him, he may get the hump & whack up quote

 

In my experience, and for reasons I don't really understand, tradesmen prefer to promise a quote and not deliver rather than say they don't want the job.  Maybe he's just really busy, but after a month, I'd be looking for another builder.

[zoothorn]

@Roundtuit hi there- yes understood. But this is wild west wales, things just take forever here.. I had a similar wait for my quote on my chimney rebuild + other jobs from him. Its almost an ideal job for him, a few miles from his home, good access & knows me well.

 

Anyway for now I need to consider an important thing in the design: containing the sound, within the lower room. I don't expect 'soundproofed' but I need every facet I can to aid sound retention- my sod n'bors now on my back re my router work/ council complaint. This gives me the hurry up. At the mo plan's going twds a TF inner frame, & block outer cladding bc of solidity but also adding density which I hope will help on the sound. I hope to use 'sound rockwool' for the insulation in the wall.

 

Please, any advice on this aspect chaps- I'd be grateful. This has a new urgency now- I'm getting onto builder tonight. Thanks, zoot.

[Simplysimon]

pic of cladding

 

[Ferdinand]

On 01/06/2019 at 22:58, Roundtuit said:

 

In my experience, and for reasons I don't really understand, tradesmen prefer to promise a quote and not deliver rather than say they don't want the job.  Maybe he's just really busy, but after a month, I'd be looking for another builder.

 

It means they are 8 miles away when you may get cross ?.

[zoothorn]

@SimplySimon

[Onoff]

15 hours ago, zoothorn said:

re my router work

 

@zoothorn, what do you do for dust extraction? I route outside and that makes enough mess! 

 

Also if you route MDF doesn't that have health implications worse than if you're routing real wood?

 

One day when I've a decent internal workspace I'll rig up the giant,  110V shop extractor I've got. (I've only ever used it for wall chasing up until now).

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

@zoothorn, what do you do for dust extraction? I route outside and that makes enough mess! 

 

Also if you route MDF doesn't that have health implications worse than if you're routing real wood?

 

One day when I've a decent internal workspace I'll rig up the giant,  110V shop extractor I've got. (I've only ever used it for wall chasing up until now).

Good Q. At the mo I rout outside, mostly a useful crosswind takes away dust.. but once inside, just a shop-vac. A Clarke 1hp possibly, & not too noisy.. but might take up 1/3rd of room. Dust's my biggest bugbear. Circ'saw & chopsaw I just can't rig up to a vac, so have to lump the dust. I hope to shift these 2 noisiest sods right down end of gdn, next to my logcabin (if I can work out these 2 pillars), a little more secluded.

 

I don't use MDF thankfully, birch ply instead.. which is nasty dust too (formaldyhyde & glue layers etc)

[zoothorn]

@Onoff I'd be interested on any thoughts about my wall choice Onoff, your opinion I respect most etc. I need to really contain (router mostly) sound as much as poss- my nastiest n'bors (dog mess etc) just made 1st noise complaint, just to get at me, but once ext built it'll be on their side: I know the 1st of many complaints (the last avenue they have to get at me).. so I need the noise factor down a BIG peg, if I can. Alot rests on this.

[Onoff]

12 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff I'd be interested on any thoughts about my wall choice Onoff, your opinion I respect most etc. I need to really contain (router mostly) sound as much as poss- my nastiest n'bors (dog mess etc) just made 1st noise complaint, just to get at me, but once ext built it'll be on their side: I know the 1st of many complaints (the last avenue they have to get at me).. so I need the noise factor down a BIG peg, if I can. Alot rests on this.

 

Why me??? ?

 

Not got a clue ref the wall. When/if I come to do my garden room I'll be on here asking questions galore.

 

What I do know...

 

I "recently" refurbed my bathroom. Two existing brick cavity walls and two solid brick walls. I lined it with timber stud walls much as you have in your kitchen. I filled in between the battens with pir. Vcl over that then plasterboard and tiles. I really paid attention to gaps, foaming and taping etc. Everybody remarks how super quiet it is in the bathroom now.

 

In effect this is a TF construction with a "block" outer.

 

I'm guessing here but just maybe you could build the TF to full height, get the roof on to get it watertight and do the outer skin afterwards?

 

If you are intent on working from home like this then doing it outside you'll likely get continued complaints.

 

Why can't you rig the circular and chop saw to a vac btw? I have loads of times.

 

[newhome]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

I'm guessing here but just maybe you could build the TF to full height, get the roof on to get it watertight and do the outer skin afterwards?

 

My house is constructed that way and it was timber frame, roof and then the blockwork. The breather membrane keeps it waterproof for a while.