Zoot's Extension- advice needed.

[zoothorn]

@Onoff ok understood that Onoff cheers (thought walls might be your thing too). Its looking twds: TF + block clad, if I can afford it. TF + wood clad 2nd option. I'm adding 250mm to make it 4000mm via a non-material-ammendment, so hope to use some of this extra bit to stud-line+more 'sound rockwool' before the pB to the inside of room1.

 

How did you add a vac to chopsaw & circ'saw? were you inside (assume so, or you just use the wind etc) and what type of vac? tbh Ive considered doing so, but these 2 saws fire the debris so widely I thought even a powerful vac would only get 1/3rd of it best case. Attatching to my skilsaw too.. with its stupid vent hole I couldn't see but being a useless excercise.

[MJNewton]

35 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

How did you add a vac to chopsaw & circ'saw? were you inside (assume so, or you just use the wind etc) and what type of vac? tbh Ive considered doing so, but these 2 saws fire the debris so widely I thought even a powerful vac would only get 1/3rd of it best case.

 

Have you considered a track/plunge saw to replace the circular saw? Far superior for many jobs that you'd do with a circular saw, not least the ease of dust extraction given the fully-shrouded blade.

[zoothorn]

On 05/06/2019 at 11:12, MJNewton said:

 

Have you considered a track/plunge saw to replace the circular saw? Far superior for many jobs that you'd do with a circular saw, not least the ease of dust extraction given the fully-shrouded blade.

 

Hi MJNewton, sorry I forgot to reply. I googled said contraption/ ideal: might well be top of list once I'm in & all's doodle-dandy. thx.

 

Just spoke to my builder. He totally forgot about my quote request. ? so I gently reminded him. We talked of top room "open to apex" (not open to apeths- I don't want that) & he mentioned would need xyz to do.. why not a "collared roof"? I guess like an 'A'.. so thoughts on this if you would chaps?

 

But got good vibes. Calling PP & BC about minor ammendments tmrw. Also got a groundwork guy penciled in, work with me ok with him, whom I got round innitially regarding my log cabin (tricky stream-side) support pillars. Good.

 

I think a musical intermission then- rink rat!!

 

 

zoot

 

[Ed Davies]

On 05/06/2019 at 11:12, MJNewton said:

Have you considered a track/plunge saw to replace the circular saw? Far superior for many jobs that you'd do with a circular saw, not least the ease of dust extraction given the fully-shrouded blade.

 

52 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Hi MJNewton, sorry I forgot to reply. I googled said contraption/ ideal: might well be top of list once I'm in & all's doodle-dandy. thx.

 

You might find this video interesting, then:

 

His earlier videos on tracksaws in general are on my to-watch list. His most recent one is a slight update on the Lidl tracksaw one.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Ed Davies

[zoothorn]

Very useful vid Ed. Id never heard of plungesaws until this page4. I like the no dust aspect, well I couldn't see any on that test cut.. did he have it vac'd up? could I bring myself to actually go into a lidl seems to be the issue. but seriously, how could I cope witrh swapping my usa made skilsaw, for a £65 china lidl saw?! bizarre Im even thinking on it.

 

So is the design of these basically this: some bright spark saw circ'saws as great, but for the damn dust issue.. & designed a 'better circ'saw' being the blade hidden/ enclosed to channel the dust down/away.. plus a clever integral rail as a bonus. Is that the basic idea with these?

[MJNewton]

That's pretty much it, but you can also plunge the saw (safely!) for cutouts and the blade is positioned very near the edge (<20mm) and so you can use it to trim in-situ skirting, doors etc.

[zoothorn]

Right ok yes the plunge aspect of course is n/a with circ'saws.. but I can't see how the plunge is of any particular use, bar cutout something or other (I can't think of any wood eg, with a plunge-cut section to it).. so can only think its plunge design is primarily for an easier/ soft-start to a simple straight cut. As for doors/ skirting I just can't envisage safe use on these eg's either.. unless removed & laid flat on a bench 1st.

 

I'm not on board with what they're for I don't think yet. Unless a slightly weird (over?)designed saw almost exclusively for straight cuts.

[MJNewton]

Sink cutouts on suitable worktop materials is a common one. I must admit I'd be nervous doing it though - not from concerns of safety but rather getting it wrong!

 

Trimming skirting is done with them when retrofitting wooden floor coverings without removing skirting (and wanting to avoid the need for beading).

Edited June 13, 2019 by MJNewton

[zoothorn]

trimming the bottom edge of skirting you mean? no surely not. I can't work it out.. drivin me a bit nuts/ anyway not to worry now.

 

I need to concentrate back on the extention. I have a new word in the mix today "collared ceiling" suggested by my builder, instead of "open to apex" he said xyz reasons why would be slightly problematic (cant recall exactly what).

 

Is there a standard height, at which the cross beam of the 'A' shape, can go relative to the roof ridge above? obviously I'd prefer the cross beam as high as possible.. but I guess the higher it is, the less structurally strong the roof becomes. Is that roughly correct?

Edited June 13, 2019 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps- anyone know about collared ceilings? I get the idea, suggested by builder (the open to apex not possible he said, structure-wise I think).. looked at google info/ pics etc. But the height of the collars, the position of the raised celing in room2, is critical to the whole extention plan: everything internally (space/ H in room2, floor position between, space/ H in below room1)  is relative to their position.

 

Would two additional cross-members (I dont know the term) at each end of the roof..at the level a traditional flat ceiling would be, say just above french windows' frame top/ below the collars, be needed too? I mean one at each end of the room, one french doors' end & one opposite house end. I'm thinking structurally etc.

[PeterW]

A collar goes across every pair of rafters - it’s a common detail and pretty easy to design but is usually done as part of a truss if it is being used for an open plan room. They don’t need to be too low, but also they can’t be too high as they don’t work otherwise. The maximum you get away with from memory is 1/3rd height of the roof, so basically if you get a ruler and measure the vertical distance from the apex to the wall plate, you’ll get the maximum height you can get in the roof if you measure 1/3rd down from the apex. 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Ok Peter thanks/ understood. Do you know if going Timber Frame walls, will mean any extra roof structure/ bracing is needed, over standard solid walls? &  if the 1/3rd rule you mention is the same for solid or TF walls (not say increaced to perhaps 1/2 max for TF)?

 

I'm on the cusp of having a viable sized knock-thru door (into a 1-step down floor position, from main bedroom in house).. or a restricted door H if the collared ceiling level is lower than the top of an average H door frame, even at the highest the ceiling can be.. or the whole idea isn't possible at all.

 

I don't think you see my builder, or my 'architectural consultant', have given this enough thought.. or barely any thought at all tbh. So I think its solely up to me to determine if door frame can indeed just fit in (or its compromised in H, or it just cannot be done). Not easy for me, as I don't know A) how thick the roof would be, & B) exactly what height point the collared ceiling will be.

[PeterW]

@zoothorn being very rough and ready I think the lowest the collar will be is as I’ve added here based on 1/3rd down. 

 

[PeterW]

@zoothorn being very rough and ready I think the lowest the collar will be is as I’ve added here based on 1/3rd down. 

 

[zoothorn]

Hi PeterW- really appreciate that. Hey looks like I might get away with it.. just! any idea if B.Regs need a minimum H to the door frame? here it says 1990 on plan, but my kitchen door frame (thru to main room, with its very low ceiling beams just above my head) is 1880 x 820mm.

 

Would I be allowed to build a similar sized smaller door for my knock-thru into my extention room2 do you think?

[PeterW]

So.....

 

in English and Welsh building regulations, there are minimum widths for doors, but no minimum height ... go figure..!!

 

 

[zoothorn]

Ok good- I don't like the width thing. A knock-thru door is characterful if its a bit narrower, or even got a nip off a cnr. Anyway good research, thanks PeterW.

 

As its a thick wall (width of stone shell) where knock-thru will be, I'm planning on making 2 doors myself, in my time, to fit 2 frames I want builder to put in. My reason: I think cold will get into main room via here from extention: 2 well-fitting doors like a sandwich say 18" apart I hope will provide a bit of a barrier, sound too, a bit of extra privacy.

[PeterW]

I think you will find the opposite ..!! A well insulated  and sealed new built room will be much warmer than the old one..!! 

[zoothorn]

Oh sure- it'll be the only warm room in the house, but just me lives here: the extention room won't be heated, & I'm next door in the main bedroom. So innevitably it'll mostly not be warm in there, unless I introduce it: IE when s'one sleeps over, or I use it during winter days for a study/ hunkerdown room if my house too cold (alot! one reason for building it tbh), or a work room if cabin end of gdn's too cold.

 

So i want to separate off as best as so heat doesn't get zapped by cold coming in from it to the main bedroom via 1 pine door. Plus some extra privacy.

[zoothorn]

Update: still waiting on builder quote..! doing N.M.Ammendment for 1 velux (far side), 25cm extra L.. & new balcony idea*.

 

Re-think on 2 things. 2 steps 'down' to the lower room (1 before) reason: position of the ceiling/ floor relative to the upper room's internal height critical: now a collared ceiling in here, so I need to shift floor down a peg to retain decent room height (= also a step down into here, from house bedroom.. I quite like idea of).

 

As room1 below's internal H is less critical, I still need it not to have cramped headroom. A tricky one to get divide right.

So, is shifting the room1 groundwork floor down 2 steps (1 before) ok.. any major groundwork problem?

 

*New balcony idea: wood steps up to wood balcony for french windows. Benefits: 1) doors open out to aid room2 space, 2) breaks up overall 'box' look (steps up room1 door side, turn R onto balcony?), 3) fab mini seaty area. I asked PP if this would need rme esubmit PP "no, just a NMA- put on with other 2 minor things".

Edited June 21, 2019 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

@zoothorn why no heating in there ..?? Thought you had rads and it’s not a difficult job to add one into another room. 

 

Alternative is a panel heater and I would seriously consider this as otherwise you’ve just created a store room in all but name. 

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn why no heating in there ..?? Thought you had rads and it’s not a difficult job to add one into another room. 

 

Alternative is a panel heater and I would seriously consider this as otherwise you’ve just created a store room in all but name. 

 

Hi PeterW- I'll put a panel heater in top room. If by BRegs rule I have to have min 50mm of floor (slab) insulation (or if not that's what I'll go for) & the TF walls will have insulation.. sound rockwool I want in room1.. then I don't need heating in here.

 

Heating's an addition once built- the priority at the moment while I wait for a quote, is the design.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi PeterW- I'll put a panel heater in top room. If by BRegs rule I have to have min 50mm of floor (slab) insulation (or if not that's what I'll go for) & the TF walls will have insulation.. sound rockwool I want in room1.. then I don't need heating in here.

 

Heating's an addition once built- the priority at the moment while I wait for a quote, is the design.

 

Ok - you will need a minimum of 250mm of floor insulation, not 50mm as that is for sound insulation between floors in a heated building. 

 

The room below is classed as an unheated  space, so you will need to insulate the intermediate floor space as though it is a ground floor.

 

That is building regulations. 

 

 

[zoothorn]

20 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Ok - you will need a minimum of 250mm of floor insulation, not 50mm as that is for sound insulation between floors in a heated building. 

 

The room below is classed as an unheated  space, so you will need to insulate the intermediate floor space as though it is a ground floor.

 

That is building regulations. 

 

 

 Hi Peter,

 

the intermediate floor is no problem to insulate, I was going to make sure thick here anyway (as room below cold).

 

So yur point here, unless I'm mistaken, is to allow for extra thickness between the floors, but, that maybe I can go 'thinner' on the ground floor thickness as it can be classed as ban unheated space (I'm not sure if this is your very point, or part of your point).

Edited June 21, 2019 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

So that’s fine. Assume you are then talking about the ground slab which needs nothing if it’s a storeroom but really I’d suggest some element of insulation only if it’s 100mm of polystyrene to keep the chill from the floor.