Negotiating Price of Windows

[Triassic]

In all the time I've been a member of Buildhub it's all been talk, now things are getting very real, the walls are up and the roof starts going on tommorrow.

 

We have various window quotes, which we've reviewed and decided on which manufacturers windows range best suits the house, we've also finalised the internal and external colour.

 

My next task is to talk prices with them and see what flexibility there is.

 

Is there any particular strategy should be using in my negotiation.

 

 

[Thedreamer]

I was in touch six months before I actually needed the windows to discussing options etc with the sales team. 

 

After a while they were chasing me probably when targets were due at their end of months/quarters. 

 

When I was finally ready to committed I compared all the quotes and delivery/offloading procedures. 

 

I didn't bother playing the suppliers off against each other, but just said they were a little above my budget, a day later came back with 5% off, they probably just add this onto their mark up in the initial quote to people who don't ask. 

 

Also I would presume you are going for triple glazed, there was not much difference in the price on my quote with double glazing. So made sense to upgrade.

I was little disappointed with after service as one of the alu clad panels were dented on transit it took a while to address but they did eventually put this right at no cost to me.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Thedreamer

[Oz07]

as with most things get quotes as early as possible then just let them keep chasing you

[craig]

It depends, I lost a job recently because of this reason. We have a degree of flexibility but only a little.

 

The job was £32K, rationel came in at £29k. Bit of value engineering and negotiating we came in at £29k

 

Rationel dropped price for supply only from £25k to £18k at the drop of a hat. Sometimes you just have to walk away and question how much they are marking up in the first place.

Edited February 21, 2019 by craig

[Roundtuit]

Interesting.  When I bought my windows 2 years ago from Rationel through an agent, they came in at £11k less than my next best quote, for an arguably better product.  I was told at the time that they were so competitive as they'd opened a new manufacturing facility and needed to put some volume through it.  Don't know if it was true, but I do think there is an element of being in the right place at the right time when it comes to buying windows.

[Triassic]

The problem I’ve had with many of the wondow companies, Rationel included, is they won’t come out and do a site measure, that’s left to you. How many self builders are window experts? In a build like mine with corner windows and windows that link between floors, I’ve no idea how they link, what cover pieces I need or how cills work in our situation and often their brochures lack such details.

[Pete]

I left mine measure with the timber frame company and the window manufacturer. Got them to liaise from the outset and it worked fine.

[dpmiller]

Not rocket science to get things the right size with TF as long as everyone reads the plans- plans show window sizes, TF Co make the openings an agreed oversize.

[Triassic]

1 minute ago, dpmiller said:

Not rocket science to get things the right size with TF as long as everyone reads the plans- plans show window sizes, TF Co make the openings an agreed oversize.

I agree with that, however ours isn’t a simple square box, we have windows that link through three floors and corner windows, I’m paying a lot of money, yet it’s all down to me to measure them up, not a problem measuring a hole in a TF, but how do you cover the timber element between windows when they’re part of a set of six windows forming part of a through floor, corner window glazed element. 

[Declan52]

No chance would I be taking the risk of doing the  measurements.  If they want the business then the window company will send some one out to do the job or they wouldn't get the job, simple as that. 

 

[craig]

Generally speaking a site measure is not needed as the sizes are confirmed with client/architect/timber kit supplier. All detailing should be done this way as well.

 

If angled windows or wrap around window/rooflight etc. are required then we suggest a site measure.

 

The issue with a site measure is that it adds time onto a build and delays the build getting water tight.

[Declan52]

When the window rep came out to do the measurements on mine it was him that suggested a few changes to what was already agreed on by us,  the architect and the window company .  I had top openers on some downstairs windows and he pointed out that changing these to side opening units would work much better.  He was correct.  We also have a wrap around window but wanted an opening section at one side but by standing in the room and looking out he persuaded us to go with no opening in both of these units and was  correct again.  

Plus as the rep will be your main point of contact so it's always better to meet face to face a few times  so you can build up a rapport with them.  Generally speaking Windows and Doors will be one of the most expensive aspects of your build so you want to measure up the rep and the company before you part with your money. Maybe it's just me but I am more a people person where I will base my decision on where I spend my money on how the  person I interact with behaves towards me.  I walked out of plenty of showrooms because I just didn't like the rep during my build. Nothing wrong with the product I just knew we wouldn't get on. 

[PeterW]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

walked out of plenty of showrooms because I just didn't like the rep during my build.

 

Glad it’s not just me ..!! 

[Declan52]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Glad it’s not just me ..!! 

No definitely not.  I found bathroom showrooms the worst by a mile.  

[Jeremy Harris]

FWIW I specified the actual window dimensions on the drawings, and the frame was then built to these plus 5mm all round as a fitting tolerance. 

 

The window supplier did send a chap around to confirm the actual opening sizes before they made the windows, but also had me sign their production order, by each individual window drawing, to confirm the dimensions they were planning to use were correct.  Even then they stuffed up, and delivered one window that was 400mm too wide.  The fact that I'd kept a copy of the signed production order was invaluable in proving that it was their error.

[Triassic]

Here’s an example of a corner window that’s causing me sleepless night. I’ve neasured up the size of the holes for the windows, simple! Next question, how do I cover the horizontal and vertical timber elements? Does each window need a chill or is their a preparatory cover peice to link the windows? The window company don’t appear to have covered this detail on their quote!

Suggestions and photos of how you did it welcome.

 

[iSelfBuild]

9 minutes ago, Triassic said:

Here’s an example of a corner window that’s causing me sleepless night. I’ve neasured up the size of the holes for the windows, simple! Next question, how do I cover the horizontal and vertical timber elements? Does each window need a chill or is their a preparatory cover peice to link the windows? The window company don’t appear to have covered this detail on their quote!

Suggestions and photos of how you did it welcome.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Are you having integrated corner posts? I don't mind coming out and giving you a second opinion on measurements. I'm up your neck of the woods on Wednesday next week.

[Triassic]

Thanks for the offer, however the windows measurement fine, it’s how to cover the corner post and the horizontal timber in a manner that looks good i worrying about.

[Jeremy Harris]

I had problems with getting firm details for window vertical and horizontal joints on our glazed gable.  That has four vertical window-to-window joints, plus one horizontal joint (5 windows plus a glazed door, all joined together.

 

I don't know if there's a universal answer, as all I managed to glean in the end (after a lot of unsatisfactory correspondence with the window supplier) was that the vertical joints would use a slim aluminium cover piece, that would be integrated into one of the windows and then sealed during installation to its neighbour.  The horizontal joint used a stacking cill, the details of which were never made clear prior to installation, best I got was a very scruffy faxed (!) drawing that turned out to be completely wrong anyway. 

[iSelfBuild]

1 hour ago, Triassic said:

Thanks for the offer, however the windows measurement fine, it’s how to cover the corner post and the horizontal timber in a manner that looks good i worrying about.

 

As in two units intersecting?

 

Here is our French doors with stand alone side lights. They don't require cover trim internally, they just connect with tongue groove and I glued and added brackets top and bottom on site. Externally we added a little T trim on the aluminium to make it neat and watertight.

 

For corner posts or just windows as a set they should be specified like that and the window company should have a tried and tested detail to make it look seamless. Just ask for photos on how they finish it. Here is some sliders in Arkholme which have an external aluminium cover trim.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by iSelfBuild

[craig]

Does the aluminium cladding on the windows have a groove running vertically for a 2mm thick aluminium flashing to fit?

 

If not, not a biggy you can detail the flashing in, whats the dimension of the timber post? Where at the windows sitting within the opening and can you insulate behind the flashing? Do you have a detail in PDF/DWG?

 

Would be happy to draw up a detail for you. What window system are you using? More importantly, are they fixed/T&T/casement/sliding etc?

Edited February 23, 2019 by craig

[Triassic]

I've not got the windows yet, they are Rationel Ali-clad windows, no idea if they have grooves or not.  The only detail I have is the brochure and anything on their web site?

Most windows that link through the three storeys are fixed. The timber posts are structural and 100mm square.

[craig]

Ignore the fact that the drawing shows a supplied corner post, the priciple is the same. I’ve assumed Auraplus? 

 

 

It doesn’t have grooves on the cladding and this detail shows a return on the cladding creating a shadow gap. The principle would be the same for using your own post.

 

If your not comfortable with the depth, rather than returning back onto the post and fixing, you could return it behind the cladding of the fixed jamb. You could also have it sit slightly prouder and then fix it ontop of the fixed frame cladding.

[Pocster]

Measuring and getting it right can be open to interpretation- I shoukd know ?

Once example was our structural steels ; easy to measure but I got a firm out to measure ( and charge extra for it ) . In the end their measurements were different to mine because they took things into account only a steel fabrication firm would know . With Windows I take no chance . If they can’t be assed to come out and measure forget them 

[craig]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

With Windows I take no chance . If they can’t be assed to come out and measure forget them 

 

It isn’t always necessary to come and measure and can delay build progress, that’s just wrong advice to give and probably based on your experiences for which I’m sorry you have endured.