Our_Valleys_build Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 How is everyone tackling this.. have people been allowed to self install from a certified deisgn packag along with a certified company testing it. Im a Pipefitter by trade so this is something I can do myself, id rather install first and second fix and just let someone design the package and test it, I’d work to there standards.. My thoughts are.. I can save costs by Doing the install my self. To me i would see it as easy money to be made if I was designing a package and just testing it? Hit me with your thoughts?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just from a curiosity point, can you tell me why you need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Valleys_build Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 When our planning permission was granted it stated that we have to have a built in fire sprinkler system.. they brought a new law in which was before our planning permission date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Mandatory for new builds in Wales now. I'm contemplating this very issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Who makes up these ridiculous rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 A local icf build to us (scotland) had to install a fire sprinkler system as part of his planning. He done a day course, and done his own install. Worked out pretty good and he reckoned he saved a fortune. If I remember rite it's a rigid plastic pipe with glue fittings (maybe wrong). I think it was somewhere near Newcastle he done his day course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Who makes up these ridiculous rules. This was introduced under a Private Members Bill type procedure in about 2007-2013 by an MLA called Ann Jones. Fire deaths And injuries in Wales were averaging 17 and 502. Clearly at that rate it will take two or three decades to save even 5 lives per year, assuming sprinklers save all the pot Niall lives they can (which they probably will given the record), as in this country we only renew at most 1-2% of housing stock per year. I expect that for te first 25 years at least there will be no detectable change, There was a Report from BRE pointing out that it was not cost effective at iirc 6.7m per life saved, but the decision was presumably made on principle and influenced by Fire Brigades who usually support the measure. See this piece from Wales Online https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-homes-fitted-automatic-fire-2051716 I am not sure how that perception changes after Grenfell. There is a fairly recent monitoring report presentation here, which has an installation cost table on page 67 http://www.cewales.org.uk/files/8614/8163/8572/Llandudno_Sprinkler_complete_presentation.pdf Personally I think there should be potential significantly to reduce the cost of these systems by perhaps 50% or more over time, so I am agnostic about the measure (though quite happy for somewhere to be running a long term experiment). At say 1-2k per house I would be a strong supporter. At 3-4K, not so much ... spend the money on a different Ill in society, such as impact of drones, insulation/ventilation programmes, or houses on corners that get lorries in the front room depending on research. F Edited January 31, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 As for a self install, I think the possible required maintenance checks and certification are one area where you may have an issue. I have a sense that there may be some kind of enforcement bureaucracy attached to this. The presentation I linked may have more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 When I looked into fitting a system self-install was not an option. There was no reason why a competent person couldn't install a sprinkler system, other than the fact that to get accepted either as part of a mandatory requirement, or by an insurer, meant having to have the system certified. I couldn't find any way around this. There was also the problem that, when I was looking, none of the suppliers would just sell the kit, they all wanted to undertake the installation as well. Mist systems seemed to me to be a lot better than conventional sprinklers, primarily because they seem just as effective and cause a lot less water damage. I believe that water damage from a faulty installation causing inadvertent operation may be one reason insurers want these things to be certified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 35 minutes ago, JSHarris said: There was no reason why a competent person couldn't install a sprinkler system, other than the fact that to get accepted either as part of a mandatory requirement, or by an insurer, meant having to have the system certified. Same as MCS installs for RHI although you can at least get someone to sign that off if you can find someone. Seems a ploy to force people to spend way more money than should be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I had same problem --with my garage -after splitting it into units long story short --wanted to fit sprinkler --was simple to get plenty of overlap on spray patterns not exactly rocket science to fit galv steam r pipe to all purlins with sprinker heads every 6ft -which have an 8ft pattern but BC insisted on fire engineer cert sent drawing to man --"yes thats a perfect overlap " Ok says I, how much for cert £5 k --a lot more than cost to do the job my reply not printable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Ferdinand said: At say 1-2k per house I would be a strong supporter. At 3-4K, not so much ... spend the money on a different Ill in society, such as impact of drones, insulation/ventilation programmes, or houses on corners that get lorries in the front room depending on research. We had 7 houses designed, supplied, fitted and commissioned and it worked out at £15 per sq m - £2,485 per house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: We had 7 houses designed, supplied, fitted and commissioned and it worked out at £15 per sq m - £2,485 per house. That's a lot better than the quotes I had around 5 years or so ago when looking at fitting a sprinkler system. The best price I managed to get was a bit under £6k, for a 130m² house, so more than three times that price. About £1.5k of that was for a tank and independent pump system, because we have a borehole, but even the £4.5k base price is nearly £35/m². Was there a significant discount for fitting 7 houses at the same time, do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Valleys_build Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, JSHarris said: When I looked into fitting a system self-install was not an option. There was no reason why a competent person couldn't install a sprinkler system, other than the fact that to get accepted either as part of a mandatory requirement, or by an insurer, meant having to have the system certified. I couldn't find any way around this. There was also the problem that, when I was looking, none of the suppliers would just sell the kit, they all wanted to undertake the installation as well. Mist systems seemed to me to be a lot better than conventional sprinklers, primarily because they seem just as effective and cause a lot less water damage. I believe that water damage from a faulty installation causing inadvertent operation may be one reason insurers want these things to be certified. A little up date from last night. I have found this company http://www.ultrasafe.org.uk/selfbuildsprinklers/ who specailse in design and certification and they actually let you install it your self to there specs. Yes i agree when they are demanidng the whole job or nothing i believe its purly down to making money. Im looking at around 2.8 k for mine from a company who will do the lot and the guy said straight away soon as i mentioned self install.. he would have to do it because its a life saving kit.. but as long as your compatant and hes sigining it off surley theres no issue?? .. i wonder how much i can save via these people. they offer you a course, im a compentant fitter as i have served my time as a pipe fitter so i may even be able to aviod the course possibly. Edited January 31, 2019 by Our_Valleys_build 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Valleys_build Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Ferdinand said: As for a self install, I think the possible required maintenance checks and certification are one area where you may have an issue. I have a sense that there may be some kind of enforcement bureaucracy attached to this. The presentation I linked may have more. i looked on the goverment web site last night and from there information they even give you a sheet to keep track of your fire system your self so you can log your own records. If you have a pump setup then these pumps are built with a circulaton function ( basically turns a pump over to stop it siezing up) and an alarm to test that everything is tip top etc. so i guess it would be a case of just going into the plant room hit the test button and record the test. i was quoted 1800 for a pump setup if i needed more pressure from a 32mm main, and advised i didnt need a tank if that was the case. but it wouldnt be know until the whole system was in and tested. I believe id be able to get the pump setups cheaper self sourced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) sure you need a pump --system? i was suggested to use mains water pressure +thermo capsules on sprinkler heads . different in high rise maybe --then you need tank then only room on fire gets wet and no electronics of any sort Edited January 31, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, scottishjohn said: sure you need a pump --system? i was suggested to use mains water pressure +thermo capsules on sprinkler heads . different in high rise maybe --then you need tank then only room on fire gets wet and no electronics of any sort i think the are potential grid capacity issues ... like with solar connections and electricity. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Valleys_build Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, scottishjohn said: sure you need a pump --system? i was suggested to use mains water pressure +thermo capsules on sprinkler heads . different in high rise maybe --then you need tank then only room on fire gets wet and no electronics of any sort He said hopefully mains pressure would be fine but in worst case he would have to put a booster pump in when tested if there wasnt sufficent pressure from the main32mm gives best chance). i always thought the booster pumps run with a tank but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 If you have not got mains pressure --what chance the fire brigade when they come .!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Was there a significant discount for fitting 7 houses at the same time, do you think? The same firm charged £3,740 per house for 2 houses 10 years ago, but they were a bit bigger. All were just mains fed - no tanks or pumps. I guess there is some economy of scale with multi units but maybe prices are coming down as it is more common for these to be specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our_Valleys_build Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: If you have not got mains pressure --what chance the fire brigade when they come .!! lol lol true that john i would imagen a 32mm would be fine, everytime ive seen a burst maain near me theres nothing left of the road so plenty of pressure there hopefully il have a quote back from ultrasafe later on today to compare too Also after speaking to ultra safe the course for assembly of plastic joints isnt a must eithier, just follow there instructions etc.. it just shows that other firms would rather not part from some of there profit Edited January 31, 2019 by Our_Valleys_build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: I guess there is some economy of scale with multi units but maybe prices are coming down as it is more common for these to be specified. This is one of those cases you can have mixed feelings about regulation. No regulation, very small uptake, high prices so not worthwhile in terms of cost per life saved. But a few people die. Bring in regulation, much larger uptake, bit of competition, prices come down, becomes worthwhile. A few fewer people die, enough to make it all worthwhile, but a bit tough on those required to install it early on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 One issue I believe is that the water pressure is based on the minimum guaranteed by your water company, not the static pressure measured at the premesis, so worth asking them if it is high enough to fulfill the standard. I'm on a long run 400m from my meter so I think a tank and pump system will be needed, IIRC the tank will need to be over 1000l. I'm hoping this can be underground somewhere and not in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, Miek said: One issue I believe is that the water pressure is based on the minimum guaranteed by your water company, not the static pressure measured at the premesis, so worth asking them if it is high enough to fulfill the standard. I'm on a long run 400m from my meter so I think a tank and pump system will be needed, IIRC the tank will need to be over 1000l. I'm hoping this can be underground somewhere and not in the house. Worth looking at a mist system, I think. When we were considering fitting sprinklers I faced a similar problem, in that we have a borehole supply, so if the power was switched off there would be no water for the sprinklers. The mist systems offered the option of a small pressurised tank to run the nozzles, and because the water usage with a mist system is a great deal lower than conventional sprinklers this tank didn't need to be very big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I had quotation to fit 14 no. of sprinklers to 120m2 house in 2016. The price from this firm was £3k. www.nationwidefiresprinklers.co.uk Btw this price is for assuming your main water pipe has enough pressure. It will cost more to include tank + booster system to increase the pressure. They recommended to install 50mm main pipe if you are in the position of installing new main water supply. I think the mist system considerably cost more. If you are installing only one mist in one room to solve the fire regulation, it will make sense, as it will cost £2k per mist head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now