Gearing Up For A Temporary UFH Buffer

[Onoff]

2L of inhibitor added. Adding the second to last 500ml and I forgot to fit the drain valve in the bottom of the mag filter! ?Luckily I had a bowl underneath where I'd just drained the filter into. 

 

I put the last 500ml of neat inhibitor in the mag filter and did it all back up. The 1L of liquid in the bowl, 500ml inhibitor + 500ml drained water, I just chucked into the F&E tank. Didn't want to waste it!

Edited November 14, 2020 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

How many ports do you need for the manifold? I'll dig that one I got out and post some pics of it. If it works for you it's yours for a pint.

[Onoff]

So all I need to do is dig this floor up now! (The one that's half carpeted in blue tiles):

 

 

 

 

I'm really not sure what to do with the bit of the original floor under the bottom landing? The plan is to dig down like I did in the bathroom and rebuild back up with 150mm of pir. So from the top.

 

Carpet 

100mm concrete slab

150mm pir

DPM

25mm eps

Sand blind

Compacted Type 2 - 50mm min

 

 

Of course I've to clear out and find a home for all this hoarded sh!t first!

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

How many ports do you need for the manifold? I'll dig that one I got out and post some pics of it. If it works for you it's yours for a pint.

 

As mentioned earlier in the thread my first thoughts were roughly:

 

1 - Boiler room / conservatory

2 - Kitchen 

3 - Lounge*

4 - Diner*

5 - Bedroom 

6 - Bathroom 

7 - Study area

 

*Looking to knock through properly the lounge and diner rather than partially as is now.  Maybe I can get away with one loop? Floor area of the two combined rooms would be approx. 30m2.

 

So 6 or 7 ports.

 

Would this attach to the manifold you have?

 

 

Cheers

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Would this attach to the manifold you have?

IIRC it's already fitted with a pump and TMV. I'm away until tomorrow PM,  then I'll dig it out.

[Gav_P]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

IIRC it's already fitted with a pump and TMV. I'm away until tomorrow PM,  then I'll dig it out.

Good news is, @Onoff will have that floor up by then ?

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, Gav_P said:

Good news is, @Onoff will have that floor up by then ?

?

[Onoff]

What's the done thing to insulate, pumps, valves & compression joints for instance?

 

It's easy enough to do a neat job on say soldered elbows:

 

 

But here, say the elbows and the mag filter, just thinking the losses must be quite high through uninsulated components.

 

 

Cheers

[PeterW]

Just go up a size on the insulation. 22mm is pretty good on 15mm compression, 28mm on 22mm fittings. Cut and bonded with decent 50mm insulation tape. 

[Onoff]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Just go up a size on the insulation. 22mm is pretty good on 15mm compression, 28mm on 22mm fittings. Cut and bonded with decent 50mm insulation tape. 

 

Thanks. These pipes though are 28mm in the pictures.

[PeterW]

28mm nuts need 35mm insulation

 

https://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/insulation-c555/climaflex-polyethylene-pipe-insulation-c556/climaflex-pipe-insulation-2m-lengths-same-as-tubolit-pipe-diameter-x-wall-thickness-x-length-p5251/s5261

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, PeterW said:

28mm nuts need 35mm insulation

 

https://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/insulation-c555/climaflex-polyethylene-pipe-insulation-c556/climaflex-pipe-insulation-2m-lengths-same-as-tubolit-pipe-diameter-x-wall-thickness-x-length-p5251/s5261

 

I'll try the local plumber's merchants. Thanks. 

[Onoff]

All MY tat is out of the stairs room. I said to SWMBO that I'm ready to dig the floor up.

 

"I've nowhere to put it all!" she said aka the ceiling high piles of hoarded stuff.

 

Can't pin the delay on me luv! ?

[Onoff]

On 14/11/2020 at 18:09, PeterW said:

From memory it is the same as the Flomasta one and you can get spares from S’Fix

 

 https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-magnetic-filter-seal-service-kit/3287V

 

Never mind, I'll draw one up and get my lad to print when back from uni:

 

 

?

[Onoff]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

In a new, purpose designed, low energy house you would have a limited number of UFH zones? As in the roof/ceiling, walls & floor fabric is the same detail room to room.

 

In a dodgy old house like mine with different room constructions I'm thinking there's benefit to having each room as it's own zone? Each room then having its own stat.

 

 

[Gav_P]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

In a new, purpose designed, low energy house you would have a limited number of UFH zones? As in the roof/ceiling, walls & floor fabric is the same detail room to room.

 

In a dodgy old house like mine with different room constructions I'm thinking there's benefit to having each room as it's own zone? Each room then having its own stat.

 

 

You could always start with 1 stat and add more if you felt it was needed. Easy if you use wireless stats. 
 

or maybe using slab sensors?? No idea if that is a good idea or not. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Gav_P

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, Gav_P said:

You could always start with 1 stat and add more if you felt it was needed. Easy if you use wireless stats. 

 

Do I need a 2 port zone valve for each then?

Edited November 21, 2020 by Onoff

[Gav_P]

Are you using a manifold? If so you will have an actuator on each loop. Otherwise every zone will need a zone valve I would think. 
 

my downstairs only has 1 stat and that controls 4 actuators and a 2 port valve. 

[Gav_P]

Example (quick google search) this manifold has 7 loops with actuators, so could be controlled as 7 different zones or all 1 zone.

 

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, Gav_P said:

Example (quick google search) this manifold has 7 loops with actuators, so could be controlled as 7 different zones or all 1 zone.

 

 

That's actually very helpful thanks. The Nu-Heat actuators are in fact solenoid operated valves then, controlled by individual  room stats potentially?

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, Gav_P said:

Are you using a manifold? If so you will have an actuator on each loop. Otherwise every zone will need a zone valve I would think. 
 

my downstairs only has 1 stat and that controls 4 actuators and a 2 port valve. 

 

 

Following on from my last post, why the 2 port and actuators?

[PeterW]

Probably because it is wired as 2 zones, upstairs and downstairs. A lot of systems are done like this so they can use the zone valve micro switch as a call for heat to the boiler. 
 

For yours I would go straight in with the Salus self balancing actuators as they will control the return temps better as you have a more “leaky” house. 
 

Are you keeping Rads upstairs ..??

[dpmiller]

Other than the Salus auto-balancing actuators Clive, they tend to be wax-expansion rather than solenoid. Bit like a TRV body with a heating element integrated.

 

As the actuators only take a few Watts it's no problem paralleling them, or instead you can link the inputs in the wiring box.  And you'll probably need one of those, to get pump and boiler switching, delay tiing etc...

[ProDave]

A few basics.

 

Most of the actuators used in UFH manifolds are hot wax rather than a mechanical motor.

 

The picture above showed a UFH manifold without a temperature blending valve.  Make SURE you include a temperature blending valve to regulate the flow temperature in the UFH and a manifold pump to circulate the water around the UFH loops.

 

It is normal to have a control box with each manifold.  this reads all the room thermostats and it's job is to turn the manifold pump on when any room calls for heat, open the actuator(s) for that room, and provide the "call for heat" to the boiler when any room is asking for heat.

 

In a new system use 2 port valves to direct heat to manifold(s) radiators and DHW as required. Do not use 3 port and especially 3 port mid position valves, they are the work of the devil imho,

 

I have individual room thermostats in my house.  What is very interesting from that is the utility room takes very much longer to heat up and keeps asking for heat long after the other rooms are satisfied.  This is a general finding I have found that rooms like our utility room that use aluminium spreader plates put less heat into the room than the rest of our ground floor that has the pipes set in dry sand/ cement pug mix.

 

 

[Onoff]

Thanks all. How many people can I "like" at once?