Removing hardstanding up against a 3rd party wall

[Sjk]

At the moment there is a heavy duty drive which goes along side another persons house. 

 

Im going to hire an excavator and take the whole lot up, now I’m a little concerned that I could very easy damage their wall when doing this. 

 

It is about 20cms of concrete and tarmac on top of that, any tips for getting the section close to their house up without taking the side of their house down?

[Ferdinand]

Personally I would say talk to them about it, and see what they want.

 

Then let them see it being done.

 

Is there something to be said for either doing it with a handheld jackhammer first on that strip, or leaving it in place?

 

F

[dpmiller]

where is the boundary?

[Sjk]

I did consider a hand held, wasn’t sure it would get through it though? 

 

Boundary is their wall. 

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, Sjk said:

Boundary is their wall. 

 

So their footings are trespassing ? ?

[Declan52]

You could use a road saw and cut it into sections so you aren't going in with the rock hammer close to there house. 

[scottishjohn]

you better be certain where the boundaries are on the deeds  

I would be getting copy of land title and  talking to your legal man  before doing anything

If you weaken the ground and cause them subsidence --you will be paying   

in scotland you cannot build anything with 1 m of boundary  anyway

[Jeremy Harris]

Neither the deeds not the Land Registry Title Plan will have an accurate or legally binding definition of the boundary, in all probability.  The Land Registry actually warn that their Title Deed Plans should not be relied on as proof of where any boundary lies (been there, got the tee shirt, twice...).

[Sjk]

The house is Victorian and has been there about 100 years longer than the drive, I hope this will make it easier. 

 

Not concerned about the boundaries (maybe I should be) it’s clear from the title that it is where the wall, although agree with JSHarris. No one is disputing that the boundary, not even the neighbours. 

[Mr Punter]

You will not damage a wall by excavating a driveway.  Use a tracked excavator 6 tonne minimum with a pecker and a decent operator.  You won't need to pecker near to the wall, just use the machine to lift those bits up. Let them know what you are doing and get it done in a day and mucked away.

[scottishjohn]

16 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Neither the deeds not the Land Registry Title Plan will have an accurate or legally binding definition of the boundary, in all probability.  The Land Registry actually warn that their Title Deed Plans should not be relied on as proof of where any boundary lies (been there, got the tee shirt, twice...).

you just proved my point-- and saying you been there twice  makes it even more important to find out the truth before doing anything.

and if your title plan is not correct --then maybe now is the time to get that sorted 

 

you need to get this sorted out before declaring war on next door . by digging trenchs like the somme 

doing what others are  suggesting could end up costing thousnads in legal fees if next door  do ont agree with the boundary line

 

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

you just proved my point-- and saying you been there twice  makes it even more important to find out the truth before doing anything.

and if your title plan is not correct --then maybe now is the time to get that sorted 

 

you need to get this sorted out before declaring war on next door . by digging trenchs like the somme 

doing what others are  suggesting could end up costing thousnads in legal fees if next door  do ont agree with the boundary line

 

 

The point I was making is that the Land Registry Title Plan is not a reliable indication as to where a boundary is, and neither is any plan associated with the old deeds.  These plans have never been a legal definition of any boundaries, they are always just an indication only.

 

The only way to define a boundary is by both parties agreeing that a physical feature on the ground is the actual boundary; maps and plans cannot do this. 

 

The first plot we tried to buy had a very large boundary error, that the sellers weren't aware of, but which we found when doing a survey of the site pre-purchase.  The error was so large, and included the neighbour having (illegally) moved a public footpath, that we walked away from the purchase, as it was going to take at least two years to resolve, and the neighbour had almost certainly acquired ownership of the additional land by adverse possession.

 

Our current plot had a large discrepancy between the Land Registry Title Plan and where the boundary was marked on the site, by a fence.  The house that had PP could not have been built, as although it would have fitted with what existed on the ground, it would have been built partly over land marked as belonging to the neighbour to the North on the Land Registry Title Plan.  The error was corrected by agreement between the vendor and the owners of the land to the North before we completed the purchase, but it was a long and costly process as it involved changing both the Land Registry information and the mortgage information for the neighbours (in effect their mortgage had been granted on the basis of a plot of land that was a fair bit larger than it really was).  All told this meant we had a delay of around 12 months between the acceptance of our offer to buy and completion.  The boundary is now clearly delineated on the ground by a concrete and stone wall, and the exact location of the boundary relative to that (the North face of that wall) is recorded on the boundary survey we had done, and copies of that have been lodged with the Land Registry as supplementary documents that are now referenced in the registration.

[Mr Punter]

It took me 4 months to resolve a small discrepancy involving a couple of strips of land that needed to be transferred between me and a limited company owned by me.

[scottishjohn]

18 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

The point I was making is that the Land Registry Title Plan is not a reliable indication as to where a boundary is, and neither is any plan associated with the old deeds.  These plans have never been a legal definition of any boundaries, they are always just an indication only.

 

The only way to define a boundary is by both parties agreeing that a physical feature on the ground is the actual boundary; maps and plans cannot do this. 

 

The first plot we tried to buy had a very large boundary error, that the sellers weren't aware of, but which we found when doing a survey of the site pre-purchase.  The error was so large, and included the neighbour having (illegally) moved a public footpath, that we walked away from the purchase, as it was going to take at least two years to resolve, and the neighbour had almost certainly acquired ownership of the additional land by adverse possession.

 

Our current plot had a large discrepancy between the Land Registry Title Plan and where the boundary was marked on the site, by a fence.  The house that had PP could not have been built, as although it would have fitted with what existed on the ground, it would have been built partly over land marked as belonging to the neighbour to the North on the Land Registry Title Plan.  The error was corrected by agreement between the vendor and the owners of the land to the North before we completed the purchase, but it was a long and costly process as it involved changing both the Land Registry information and the mortgage information for the neighbours (in effect their mortgage had been granted on the basis of a plot of land that was a fair bit larger than it really was).  All told this meant we had a delay of around 12 months between the acceptance of our offer to buy and completion.  The boundary is now clearly delineated on the ground by a concrete and stone wall, and the exact location of the boundary relative to that (the North face of that wall) is recorded on the boundary survey we had done, and copies of that have been lodged with the Land Registry as supplementary documents that are now referenced in the registration.

thank you --that is my point -get it sorted before causing war 

[joe90]

@Sjk might it be worth a chat with your neighbour, if they agree that the wall is the boundary then there is nothing to prove (and spend time and money establishing, IF you can establish it).

[Sjk]

They agree the wall is boundary, all the paperwork shows the wall is the boundary, logical reasoning says it’s the boundary. As I said before there is no one disputing the boundary. 

 

Im all concerned about is not taking out their kitchen ha 

[joe90]

I would start away from their wall then slowly get closer as you can lift the sections from a broken edge. Have you considered getting a contractor to do this? If you do then if any damage is done it will be his problem/insurance to sort out! By the time you hire the kit, skips etc hiring someone (to also face the risk) might be worth it!.

Edited December 17, 2018 by joe90

[Jeremy Harris]

It's interesting that the face of the wall is the boundary, as that implies that they can't have anything (eaves, fascia, gutters, vent pipes etc) overhanging your land, unless they also have some form of flying freehold in place (and I'm pretty sure that flying freeholds aren't usually used for overhanging stuff like this; the only one I dealt with was part of a bedroom that went over an alleyway that belonged to the neighbouring house, in a terrace).

 

I agree with @joe90 about getting someone with insurance in to do the work, takes away most of the worries.

[Sjk]

Joe I have thought about it, the actual job looks fun so I'd love to do it myself, how doesnt want a go in an excavator :D.

 

I have also been quoted some crazy prices, from the people who actually return calls and emails

 

I could do 90% of it and leave the remainder to them hmmm.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Sjk

[Construction Channel]

Have you driven an excavator before? If not, up against someone else's house is not the place to practice. 

How much other driveway have you got to practice on before you get to the tricky bit?

 

[ProDave]

I concur with what @Construction Channel say.  The place to learn how to drive a digger is NOT within swinging distance of your neighbours house wall.

 

As one like many on here who bought their own digger, I can confirm the place to learn to drive it is the middle of an empty plot, where the worst thing you can damage WHEN you get it wrong, is an unwanted tree that is destined for removal anyway.

[joe90]

Ask me how I know, I knocked the corner of my brand new garage  with my jcb ?

[Sjk]

There is about 50sqm of the stuff. Although it’s got disaster written all over it. 

 

Joe. Let me guess, a localised tectonic shift?

Edited December 17, 2018 by Sjk
My calculation

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, Sjk said:

Let me guess, a localised tectonic shift?

 

Nah, lots of slack in my knackered old JCB and a rookie driver (me ?‍?).

[Bitpipe]

5 hours ago, joe90 said:

I would start away from their wall then slowly get closer as you can lift the sections from a broken edge. Have you considered getting a contractor to do this? If you do then if any damage is done it will be his problem/insurance to sort out! By the time you hire the kit, skips etc hiring someone (to also face the risk) might be worth it!.

 

Somebody I know (cough ) started their development by removing the old attached garage (which ran right up to boundary) so that foul runs could be made from the main sewer connection to the rear of the new development, constituting a start by BC. Also allowed temp connection to caravan. In the process the slab and 4ft thick founds needed removal which required a decent sized machine with pecker.

 

Neighbour complained about vibration in their house (which also sat right at boundary) and later claimed that their chimney had been damaged, loosing pointing. Luckily a contractor (with all the necessary insurances) was used and when the neighbour complained, they were directed to the contractor for redress.