canalsiderenovation Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) We want to start looking at windows and I've seen two companies pop up a bit, Internorm and Rationel. We have also read arguments on alu clad timer and alu clad pvc so are going to look into this, particularly with us being next to the canal, moisture and maintenance we are thinking the pvc may be better but need to check internally the look. There is an Internorm Rohaus showroom in Stafford so that can at least be a starting point. Is there any other considerations or companies we should look into that are recommended? We have two windows around 8ft x 6ft but 6 others far smaller. The other biggie is we have 10 roof lights as they are our upstairs windows so that's a separate issue I guess, though I noticed there is another forum page for that! Edited November 16, 2018 by canalsiderenovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Quite a few on here have had a nightmare with Internorm windows, us included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 The key to any window you choose is the installer. Internorm fantastic windows but I had a totally incompetent installer and am still trying to sort issues. Rationel, Gulhaufer, Nordsken, Ideal Combi et al lots of window companies out there. All good windows, people on here will have covered the range some good some not so good in the final result. Check out the installer before you place the order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 44 minutes ago, lizzie said: The key to any window you choose is the installer. Internorm fantastic windows but I had a totally incompetent installer and am still trying to sort issues. Rationel, Gulhaufer, Nordsken, Ideal Combi et al lots of window companies out there. All good windows, people on here will have covered the range some good some not so good in the final result. Check out the installer before you place the order I agree with the above but our experience of dealing with Internorm as a company has not been great. If you do decide to use Internorm do not pay all the money upfront as our installer requested. We held out for a retainer otherwise we would not have placed an order and this has now come in very useful seen as our installation has now taken over 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) All I will say is ask for referrals and visit existing clients if possible. We try our best to have site visits to customers, not all of our installations have went perfect and we will have clients attend those customers. Things go wrong when you try new teams/suppliers for example. It’s not always about how good the supplier or installer is, sometimes it’s about how good they are when things do go wrong. We are not all perfect and mistakes do happen. Expect to pay a deposit but not 100% at point of order and another before delivery - always have a retention. Edited November 16, 2018 by craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 Thanks, some great advice. We will go to the Internorm Rohas showroom and go from there, but also look at the other companies recommended. If anyone has any recommendations for installers in the North West/Shropshire area that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Katzbeck, Nordan, Russel Timbertech, Munster Joinery are a few others to look at. Like many on here we used Rationel 3G Ali clad timber and are pleased with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 9 hours ago, ProDave said: Katzbeck, Nordan, Russel Timbertech, Munster Joinery are a few others to look at. Like many on here we used Rationel 3G Ali clad timber and are pleased with them. I think aluclad pvc will be better for us rather than aluclad timber due to moisture but this seems to lower the amount of companies that actually do Aluclad PVC, bad sign perhaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 30 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: I think aluclad pvc will be better for us rather than aluclad timber due to moisture but this seems to lower the amount of companies that actually do Aluclad PVC, bad sign perhaps... Not really as it’s a niche market - uPVC is already a low maintenance product, adding an aluminium skin is about aesthetics and not protection or maintainability as with a timber window. uPVC also comes in a wide range of colours now too so if you want it in anthracite or similar then it’s available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelld Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) On its own PVCu is low maintenance but I wouldn't call it high durability, at least not as durable as aluminium... but it probably depends on the context and the manufacturer (and installer!) In most cases I see aluclad PVCu as a cheaper way of getting alu-clad and therefore the look/durability of alu. Edited November 17, 2018 by gravelld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 17/11/2018 at 17:06, gravelld said: On its own PVCu is low maintenance but I wouldn't call it high durability, at least not as durable as aluminium... but it probably depends on the context and the manufacturer (and installer!) In most cases I see aluclad PVCu as a cheaper way of getting alu-clad and therefore the look/durability of alu. Yes same here. I'm worried aluclad timber won't be suitable for us in terms of maintenance and the closeness to the water. What I'm unclear on is how aluclad pvc, or even aluclad timber for example compares to aluminium. What are the particular benefits of aluclad over aluminium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, canalsiderenovation said: Yes same here. I'm worried aluclad timber won't be suitable for us in terms of maintenance and the closeness to the water. What I'm unclear on is how aluclad pvc, or even aluclad timber for example compares to aluminium. What are the particular benefits of aluclad over aluminium? You’ll be fine. What your looking for is a hi res finish on the aluminium and a tricoat finish to the hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvincentd Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 My window fitter 'has done em all'...I asked him what he'd choose for himself....Rationel. (I offer this nugget as someone who didn't choose Rationel, knows little about them and is totally happy with his 'other' windows and the fitter) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelld Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 6 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said: What I'm unclear on is how aluclad pvc, or even aluclad timber for example compares to aluminium. What are the particular benefits of aluclad over aluminium? Likely better performance - wood is a better insulator. More hackable - if something goes wrong you can fix the timber and re-affix the cladding (although obviously this will be far more of a job than plain timber). People tend to prefer the softer wood aesthetic (painted or not) internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 On 19/11/2018 at 18:48, mvincentd said: On 19/11/2018 at 14:41, craig said: You’ll be fine. What your looking for is a hi res finish on the aluminium and a tricoat finish to the hardware. I'll do some more research into aluclad. What about just aluminium? Aside from insulating any other pros and cons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) Just the same, as long as it has a hi res finish and tricoat finish to the hardware. The sea salt air can cause a mess, how close to the sea? We have beach getaways, all fine - apart from the previous UK supplier didn’t protect the hardware and has been replaced 5 years ago and no issues since. Edited November 21, 2018 by craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evelar Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 following as we're just delving into the windows minefield. We have aluminium right now but have 2 sets of corner bifolds- they are chilly to touch and the u value is about 1.8 so not great and we have some condensation issues because our house is airtight (these are very minor though). Alu clad timber gives a better u value and insulation - I was advised not to use alu clad upvc for bifolds as it's not as durable so think I will probably try for alu clad timber this time around. Am so confused with windows - u values and then g values and solar gain, do we want the heat / don't we want the heat on our south facing glazing, heat reflective coating or not? triple glazed - is it worth the extra? So.many.questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 @evelar glad it's not just me! We are next to the canal, lovely sunny days it's great but it can get very damp, misty etc in autumn/winter and having read a few posts I'd be worried about aluclad timber, longevity and maintenance. I think our options are going to be aluclad pvc or aluminium for the windows and aluminium for the doors (not aluclad pvc as we had pvc bifolds in our last property and didn't rate them). Your post about the problems you've had with aluminium worry me slightly, though I hope the technology has advanced now! Its so confusing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) . Edited September 26, 2019 by the_r_sole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I wouldn't be concerned about using Timber Aluminium windows. The timber has the moisture levels reduced at factory in drying chambers etc. before being treated and so forth. Then the window is lacquer protected also. I would not be concerned at using timber aluminium windows - if you are concerned, then I would ask the relevant suppliers for any documentation to eleviate any of your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 I visited Rohaus, Stafford today which has Internorm windows on display. Obviously we will need to get prices but I was surprisingly impressed by the aluclad uPVC, particularly the KF500 and KF220, the KF500 has a u value of .61 which was on a par with some of the timber aluclad windows. From the exterior there would be very little difference and the interior is pretty decent too. I'd definitely be interested to hear anyone who has aluclad pvc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I have Internorm aluclad pvc windows KV440's and one KF410 (non opening highlight). absolutely no issues. We were going to use HV350's with the KF440's only in the bathrooms (recommended not to put timber in bathrooms) and we thought just go pvc throughout, slightly cheaper but the quality is superb. You can have them coloured inside with wood effect Decor Foils if you want that wood look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 Thanks @le-cerveau that's great to hear. I didn't like the kf410 solely from a practical point with the gap around and I was thinking of cleaning and it getting dusty. Do you have any pics of the kv440? I'm definitely leaning towards the aluclad pvc especially if the price difference is significant. I can't seem to find many places other than Internorm that offers aluclad pvc though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Some pictures from during the build. Dining room 2400mm wide, 1800mm high Obscured bedroom window (overlooking, 2000mm x 1200mm) External, the top left is the KF410 Bedroom and en-suite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Thanks @le-cerveau they look really smart. Your wood cladding looks really good too. Another question, is that k-rend? If so what colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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