Ben100 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi all, I'm new to this group and this is my first post, but I expect to post many more... I've just been given my planning permission to build a large extension to my 1860's red brick Victorian house, and now I'm at the stage of construction method choice and building regs design. I'm planning to do most of the work myself as I'm an advanced DIYer and want to keep costs down. The extension is quite large at around 95m2 over 2 stories, and I plan to finish with timber cladding and have a large amount of glass (bi-fold doors, etc). I have the most experience working with timber and no experience with block work. Timber frame seems to be the obvious choice for me, but what are the pros and cons? How do costs compare to other construction methods? and does timber frame lend itself to single person self-builders? Are mortgages hard to get for timber frame? anything else? Thanks for the help in advance! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) Can i also ask while you pose the question, what about an external masonry leaf with inner timber leave? Edited November 5, 2018 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi Ben and welcome to BuildHub. Not sure if you have seen this thread that covers some of what you are asking but it may not cover everything. There doesn’t seem to be an issue with getting a mortgage for a timber frame as long as it is quite traditional and by that I mean timber frame with a block skin or another accepted method. Someone on here who had done something different was struggling to get a mortgage on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Added to say that some people are passionate about their preferred method so there is never going to be a single answer, you can only weigh up the pros and cons as they relate to your own project and decide based on that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 A big issue to consider is that timber frame will shrink in height by about 20mm so you will need to be able to accommodate this at the junction to your existing building, particularly after first floor level. A plan may help - you can post pdfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben100 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Moonshine said: Can i also ask while you pose the question, what about an external masonry leaf with inner timber leave? Simple answer is design. We like the look of cladding and it’s very traditional for this part of the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben100 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, newhome said: Hi Ben and welcome to BuildHub. Not sure if you have seen this thread that covers some of what you are asking but it may not cover everything. There doesn’t seem to be an issue with getting a mortgage for a timber frame as long as it is quite traditional and by that I mean timber frame with a block skin or another accepted method. Someone on here who had done something different was struggling to get a mortgage on it. Reading this has left me more confused than before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Ben100 said: Reading this has left me more confused than before! Lol, you have to take away the bits of your choice ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Ben100 said: Simple answer is design. We like the look of cladding and it’s very traditional for this part of the uk. I was asking the general question about the sort of construction as a below, a kind of hybrid and you can clad it. Edited November 5, 2018 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Why would you put a block skin on the outside of a house you want cladding on ??? the main problem I see with timber frame is when you want a rendered finish, this is when the mortgage lenders get cold feet, as they want to see a cavity not render straight on a board straight on the frame. There are lots on here with timber frame and cladding. A few on here have used a company called cullen timber frame, they can design all your timber and produce a detailed cutting list so all you need to do is knock it together on site. I myself was going to use them but chose ICF instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 If you have experience with timber and none with blocks then I think it would be wise to stay with what you know. As you have seen in the other linked post each different building system will have advantages and disadvantages so it really just comes down to personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben100 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Why would you put a block skin on the outside of a house you want cladding on ??? the main problem I see with timber frame is when you want a rendered finish, this is when the mortgage lenders get cold feet, as they want to see a cavity not render straight on a board straight on the frame. There are lots on here with timber frame and cladding. A few on here have used a company called cullen timber frame, they can design all your timber and produce a detailed cutting list so all you need to do is knock it together on site. I myself was going to use them but chose ICF instead. Thanks, I’ll check them out. I was also considering making up my own panels on-site to save money. Basically just buying the timber from a timber yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Mr Punter said: A big issue to consider is that timber frame will shrink in height by about 20mm . seriously? why? been in the trade for too many years and it's the first i've heard it. afaia yellow pine is the only pine which has any measureable shrinkage in it's length Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Simplysimon said: seriously? why? been in the trade for too many years and it's the first i've heard it. afaia yellow pine is the only pine which has any measureable shrinkage in it's length My very knowledgable carpenter also told me that the timber frame will shrink circa 25mm. I have absolute faith and trust in him, we had an MBC frame but he did every other bit of carpentry on the house. He has many years of experience of timber frame buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben100 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said: Why would you put a block skin on the outside of a house you want cladding on ??? the main problem I see with timber frame is when you want a rendered finish, this is when the mortgage lenders get cold feet, as they want to see a cavity not render straight on a board straight on the frame. There are lots on here with timber frame and cladding. A few on here have used a company called cullen timber frame, they can design all your timber and produce a detailed cutting list so all you need to do is knock it together on site. I myself was going to use them but chose ICF instead. Out of interest, how did the ICF build go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Ben100 said: Out of interest, how did the ICF build go? It’s about half way up, very nice product, wouldn’t hesitate to use it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I stick built on site my last house and we allowed a 20mm gap above the windows for settlement, after 2 years you can re decorate and re align and window trims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 16 hours ago, Simplysimon said: seriously? why? been in the trade for too many years and it's the first i've heard it. afaia yellow pine is the only pine which has any measureable shrinkage in it's length You are right in that timber has very little shrinkage along it's length. The shrinkage occurs across the width, so sole plates, locating plates, head binders, joists, top and bottom chords of engineered joists. This is all in the floor zone. The issue with timber frame occurs on buildings with a brick or block outer leaf as the frame shrinks down and the brick // block does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 hours ago, Mr Punter said: You are right in that timber has very little shrinkage along it's length. The shrinkage occurs across the width, so sole plates, locating plates, head binders, joists, top and bottom chords of engineered joists. This is all in the floor zone. The issue with timber frame occurs on buildings with a brick or block outer leaf as the frame shrinks down and the brick // block does not. exactly, kiln dried timber won''t move to that extent. soleplate/headplate - thickness minimal movement, joist - width small amount of shrinkage, binders - width small amount. doesn't add up to 20mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Feet Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 05/11/2018 at 17:37, Russell griffiths said: A few on here have used a company called cullen timber frame, they can design all your timber and produce a detailed cutting list so all you need to do is knock it together on site. Can anyone give me a rough idea of the cost of this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 14 hours ago, Simplysimon said: exactly, kiln dried timber won''t move to that extent. soleplate/headplate - thickness minimal movement, joist - width small amount of shrinkage, binders - width small amount. doesn't add up to 20mm. http://nhbccampaigns.co.uk/landingpages/techzone/previous_versions/2011/Part6/section2/appendix.htm#62C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 That’s exactly how I did mine, sacrificial trim around head of window got removed after a year or two and a bit of fettling and re sealing and then replace window trims. Inside and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Mr Punter said: http://nhbccampaigns.co.uk/landingpages/techzone/previous_versions/2011/Part6/section2/appendix.htm#62C point taken, must use drier timber up here or it doesn't dry out to the same extent due to the weather as i've always seen ext. wall built to soffit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben100 Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 On 06/11/2018 at 11:06, Mr Punter said: You are right in that timber has very little shrinkage along it's length. The shrinkage occurs across the width, so sole plates, locating plates, head binders, joists, top and bottom chords of engineered joists. This is all in the floor zone. The issue with timber frame occurs on buildings with a brick or block outer leaf as the frame shrinks down and the brick // block does not. I'm looking to use timber cladding as the external skin, so I don't think I'll have this issue. Not sure if the join to the existing brick house will be an issue though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ben100 said: I'm looking to use timber cladding as the external skin, so I don't think I'll have this issue. Not sure if the join to the existing brick house will be an issue though? It will be as it will move and cause problems. The main concern would be the roof join as any roof movement downward will show. Can you isolate the new part from the old or is it a composite roof extension...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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