Onoff Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 9 hours ago, PeterStarck said: Can we have one please? Maybe he'll adopt you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 13 hours ago, Onoff said: Maybe he'll adopt you? Here's hoping, well I'm only three years younger than his parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 My architect spoke to the planner today who told him that they plan to reject the proposal. We are quite annoyed as this is the first contact we have had with him. The decision deadline was 28th March and he did not return any calls from the architect or ask for an extension. He gave various reasons including that they want the house hard to one side of the plot, that the area is too large and that they don’t like the materials. My strong suspicion is that in fact he was going to approve it and then when he put it to his manager they said they didn’t want it approved. This explains why we didn’t hear anything from him, giving us no opportunity for discussion. The architect could yet request a meeting with them which they may deny. We can let it be refused and appeal but as they have passed the determination deadline we could also take it straight to review although I don’t know if that would be a good or bad idea. The application was made in January with a 28 March deadline and I think it is entirely unreasonable to ignore us until this point. It did change from awaiting assessment to awaiting decision at the end of March which is what makes me suspicious that he intended to approve it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I'm sorry. That is a shame as I like the design. Can you find out the actual planning reasons for each of their grounds and perhaps modify the location or show in context / justify or modify the materials etc? Often a few small compromises is enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 They gave a few reasons verbally but it is difficult as I have never seen this situation where they have provided no feedback at all. The only way to see the reasons may be to allow it to be refused. We are not married to the materials and would happily change them. The architect thought that reason was just thrown in. The listed house next door has a zinc extension and the house across the road just built is in white render much cheaper materials with upvc windows and soffits. It too is in the garden of a listed house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, AliG said: My architect spoke to the planner today who told him that they plan to reject the proposal. Sorry to hear that. I liked your design too and as a single storey it sounded very unobtrusive on the plot. Fingers crossed you can make some headway without compromising too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue B Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 On our South Today news - couple in a conservation area had to go to appeal to get permission to build an accessible bungalow in their garden. He has MND and the house that they built is no longer suitable to meet his needs. The interview with them was very moving, asking for planning authorities to understand the power that they have over peoples lives. My understanding is that as it is not determined, you can go to appeal. Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I don’t know why everything has to ‘fit in’ as if the style houses were built in a few hundred years ago is the only style that is acceptable in certain areas. Are our minds so closed that we cannot accept new innovative designs too? How do new designs become classic styles if they are not allowed to be built? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 We have employed a planning consultant and are going to redesign the house in line with the planners concerns. I seriously doubt that the new design will be as attractive or as unobtrusive, but the planners seem dead set on the house being on a certain part of the plot. In fairness the architect is very good at design and it may be that I am just comparing something I have seen to something I am just guessing at. So bizarrely given the choice of an unobtrusive single storey house they appear to want a two storey house that is more obtrusive but covers less ground. We are going to try to design something mainly one storey with a a guest bedroom upstairs. The argument seems to be that it stays further to the side of the listed house next door, but you wouldn't be able to see it anyway, so this is just odd. They also have an issue over the conservation area being described as open, despite the fact that the plot is actually entirely enclosed. The consultant's view is that it is best to look as if you took their concerns into consideration. He does, however, think they may just not want to approve anything different to what has already been approved. Our single storey house was much more well received by the locals, but this seems to be of no concern to the planners. And of course this is taking a lot of time, whilst my parents aren't getting any younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Complete madness, I feel for you. Our planning was only approved as we have a very modern single storey construction. They turned down flat a proposal for a 2 storey ‘vernacular’ and said only a statement modern house would do in the context of it being in the garden of a Georgian house (which is not listed but is noted as of special historic interest). I think it is all at the whim of the planner in charge. I hope you can get a resolution and get on and build it and get it done whilst your parents are still young enough to get some use and enjoyment out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) It seems entirely random. On this site the current permission is for something that looks like the house next door, we don't particularly like it. Yet across the road when a house was built in another listed house garden they insisted on something modern and not a "pastiche". The funny thing is that after years of argument, they approved a modern house across the road. Someone then bought the land and reapplied for a much less interesting, cheaper to build house and it just sailed through with no argument. I am still suspicious that in fact the planner was going to approve our house and his boss stopped him. In the immediate vicinity of 7 or 8 houses, there is a render and brick listed house, a sandstone listed house, two rendered 1930s houses, a render and zinc 2015 house, a red brick 1980s house a render and stone 1980s house and a pebbledash 1970s house. Edited June 19, 2019 by AliG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 We spent a year with the planners telling us that it had to be a small house right at the front of the plot. Then we discovered they had told a previous owner in writing that "a larger house further back on the plot might be better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 As I’ve said many times before covertly record all conversations with planning . They lie , contradict , obfuscate any issue to wear you down and make sure your application is rejected . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, pocster said: As I’ve said many times before covertly record all conversations with planning . They lie , contradict , obfuscate any issue to wear you down and make sure your application is rejected . The ratchet method is your friend ; but very slow I.e years ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) OK. Take 2. Based on discussions with me the architect has pretty much nailed what we were looking for, hopefully planning like it too. We have ended up with 5 toilets. Any thoughts on doing away with the main bathroom upstairs and making it a plant room. With all the bedrooms being en suite it doesn't really seem necessary, but would people find not having a bathroom odd? If we keep the bathroom I might ask for a the downstairs shower room to be a little smaller allowing the bedroom to be bigger. I would also like the kitchen to be around 300mm longer, but there may not be space to do that, we could make the utility a little smaller. I would probably do away with the back door. I might want another window in the lounge. The architect may draw up a different exterior treatment and porch arrangement. Any other thoughts? Site plan Ground floor First floor Edited August 13, 2019 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Is that the only bath? I think a 4 bed would need at least 1 bath TBH. Could you incorporate a bath into one of the other bathrooms? The one behind it maybe, then make a smaller ‘plant’ room out of the main bathroom. Do do you need the downstairs WC to have a shower given that there is one at ground level anyway and all of the other bedrooms are upstairs? Given that this is a house for your parents is there provision for a lift or stairlift eventually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 If I lost the bathroom I would switch the en suite on the upstairs bedroom to having a bath instead of a shower. Their bedroom will be downstairs so they basically can just live downstairs if they start to struggle getting upstairs. Frankly the building regs on accessible showers in Scotland are daft. You cannot count an ensuite as an accessible shower. You either have to have one off the hall or provision to add one later. The room has to have 800x1100mm clear space in line with the door plus activity spaces in front of the equipment. Thus the architect has made it very large. However, if we make it future provision, I believe we can say that we will reverse the door at that point to swing out the way and cut 500mm off the size of the room, making it just a large WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) I would move the door to the bathroom up, and that to the study down, so that by moving the door to the top bedroom down by 1m there will be the option of a second posh master suite like the one downstairs. Gives your parents similar suites upstairs and downstairs including the bathroom as a wardrobe should they want it. Not sure if that will help them, but gives a more flexible design. As to bathroom, one option we worked out for somebody else was put plumbing in behind walls, and use it for now as whatever you want ... of which above I give one example. Edited August 14, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 @Ferdinand good ideas, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) So the application eventually went in at the end of November. We have a comment deadline of 27 December. As of today we have 15 objections and I expect more to come in. The currently approved house on the plot had 14 objections. We have 28 supporting comments mainly from friends and family. The planning officer has spoken to the planning consultant and said that he will visit the site after the New Year. This at least is good news as we had no contact from him at all previously. The situation is very frustrating as my mum and dad are not getting any younger and they really cannot afford years of back and forward. It is well over a year since we bought the plot. It seems absurd that we were asked to withdraw a proposal that only had one objection and put in a proposal that will probably end up with around 20 objections. The majority of the objections come from people who objected to the already approved house on the site. As this house is in the same place with windows facing in the same direction etc this seems quite unreasonable that they are getting a second bite at the cherry. It is not clear to me if the precedent of existing permission nullifies the objections to any extent. I have a funny feeling that we might need a third design to get somewhere. The thing is I just don't know if my parents have the stomach for the extra time. It feels like age discrimination to have such a slow moving and vague process that older people really do not have time for. I don't mind playing the long game though. Edited December 20, 2019 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, AliG said: So the application eventually went in at the end of November. We have a comment deadline of 27 December. As of today we have 15 objections and I expect more to come in. The currently approved house on the plot had 14 objections. We have 28 supporting comments mainly from friends and family. The planning officer has spoken to the planning consultant and said that he will visit the site after the New Year. This at leats is good news as we had no contact from him at all previously. The situation is very frustrating as my mum and dad are not getting any younger and they really cannot afford years of back and forward. It is well over a year since we bought the plot. It seems absurd that we were asked to withdraw a proposal that only had one objection and put in a proposal that will probably end up with around 20 objections. The majority of the objections come from people who objected to the already approved house on the site. As this house is in the same place with windows facing in the same direction etc this seems quite unreasonable that they are getting a second bite at the cherry. It is not clear to me if the precedent of existing permission nullifies the objections to any extent. I have a funny feeling that we might need a third design to get somewhere. The thing is I just don't know if my parents have the stomach for the extra time. It feels like age discrimination to have such a slow moving and vague process that older people really do not have time for. I don't mind playing the long game though. It’s easy to give up . In my experience after 5 years fighting planning my assumption is that everything is designed so that you give up and quit . You don’t do that - no matter what ! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Thanks No chance of me giving up, it's just age will catch up with mum and dad. Luckily I am not constrained by cash. We can always build the approved house, it's just that my parents don't like it and it doesn't have a downstairs bedroom. At some point we will have to make some kind of start to lock in the permission. It seems to me that the planning system would actually be more efficient if planners were more willing to engage in discussion with people to let them know what was and was not acceptable. Of course it may all be fine, the lack of knowing what is going on really makes the planning process quite frustrating. If a site already has permission for a house and you want a different design that doesn't break any planning rules then I would think it is pretty straight forward, I would love some comments if anyone has experience of this. Edited December 20, 2019 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieled Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 @AliG, this was similar to our situation. We bought a plot which had existing permission for a house which was bigger than we needed (and could afford to build). We submitted a new planning app and as the precedent for a house there had been established by the previous permission the only relevant things were other planning considerations such as foul drainage water supply, consistency with local vernacular. Straightforward from our point of view although we are in quite a rural area with no immediate neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, AliG said: Luckily I am not constrained by cash. Bribery might work. Or can you do an aspect of work to get the commencement fixed in, and then consider varying the existing as Plan C. Gateway or soakaway? Presumably you will be on the CIL-exemption before work requirement (?) Ferdinand Edited December 20, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 No CIL here thankfully. We can certainly start work to lock in the existing permission but any redesign would be too much to be a variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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