Choosing

[canalsiderenovation]

Hi, I'm new here, hoping this is the start of some good advice. We have a two bed detached bungalow and want to completely remodel and extend this up and out and also remove the old falling down garage and build a double garage. We have had four people round, and have narrowed down our shortlist to two. Can anyone advise on what they think of fees etc and if their is any other questions we should be going back and asking.  

 

Option 1: 

 

A RICS Chartered Building Surveyor specialising in Planning, Architectural Design and Party Wall Matters regulated by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. We really liked this person in terms of his knowledge although our initial view was he would work with our ideas but wouldn't necessarily 'think outside of the box' and be as creative as some others though we would be confident what he would design would work well for the property structurally, but the design part was lacking. 

 

His fees are £1600 for obtaining planning documents and £850 for obtaining building regulation plan approval with the assumption that new foundations will be traditional concrete strips and the roof will be formed with truss rafters (total £2450). 

Specifically this includes (and I'm copying and pasting): 

 

- Preparing a draft design based on our discussions. As we work through the design I will amend it to suit your needs. Once we have a scheme you are happy with I will proceed with the planning application.  

 

- Any new septic tank will require porosity tests on the ground, you can undertake these the tests as they are straightforward. Once  I have the test results I will calculate the amount of land drainage required.  

 

- For the first-floor extension the existing foundations will need checking, I can advise if a test hole is dug.  

 

- Finally, an ecology survey may be required and this will need to undertaken by a specialist. My advice, submit the application  and see if they come back asking for a survey.  

 

Planning:- I shall submit the planning application on your behalf, the council’s planning application fee will be £206.

 

The council are allowed 8 weeks to make their decision.

 

Building Regulation:- These approvals are required and an application needs submitting prior to the commencement of the on-sitebuilding works. You can either use the council or an approved inspector to act as the building control checking body; I will explain the options when we get to that stage. The council’s fees for this are approximately £250 + VAT when submitting the application and £500 + VAT when the works commence on site, I will confirm these fees after the planning application has been determined.  

 

Second Option:  

 

Well two for the price of one, male and female team. He is CIAT registered and worked for a large local firm for a long time before setting up on own. Female did 5 out of 7 years RIBA before the practice owner died (family firm), seen all certificates etc. Both seemed really seemed keen, really creative and gave us ideas we hadn't thought of and are keen to work on it as their centrepiece for their portfolio (we would be their 100 job since setting up, have seen examples of their work too). 

 

The details of pricing we have been given are as follows: 

 

Stage 1 – Survey existing dwelling and garage and carry out a full measured survey of the existing floor plans/elevations and insert into  
drawing system ready for submission with the application.  

 

Garage 

Extension 

*£70.00  
*£420.00 

 

Stage 2 – Design and Planning Submission for extension. Prepare design drafts for consultation with the client; amend accordingly.  

 

Garage 
Extension 
*£140.00  
*£980.00 

 

Stage 2a – Planning Conditions  
In the event that the Council impose any conditions these will be answered at an hourly rate. *£35/hr 

 

Stage 3 – Building Regulations  
Prepare detailed construction drawings at 1:50 and 1:20 scales; prepare supporting  documents and submit all to Building Control. Answer any conditions. Liaising with  Structural Engineer, sound specialist, energy assessor and Building Control Officer.  

 

Garage 
Extension 
*£245.00  
*£980.00 

 

Total for garage 
Total for extension 
*£455.00  
*£2,380.00 

Total £2835 

 

(Extra costs then go on to cite local authority fees etc as per first quote and surveys we may need). 

 

My concern is neither are on ARB, and the two RIBA architects we had were very expensive and left us a little underwhelmed, one wanting to spend the majority of our £150k budget on energy saving and quotes between £8-£15k. 

 

There is only around £400 difference but I'm tempted with our second option. Both firmss the second couple previously worked for are RIBA. Both are local. 

 

Thanks 

[PeterW]

Welcome

 

So... the first one will do things the second won't do, so your £400 difference may be double or triple that when you add in the extras. The first has a lot of areas covered and the one question I would ask of both is who is doing the structural calculations, and do they work with specific engineers.

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Welcome to THE forum for self builders, can you give us a hint as to where you are. Sounds like you are beside a Canal somewhere.

[MikeSharp01]

On the main question: We had almost the same set of possible 'designers' one RIBA - full architect and one passive house experienced RICS member designer. In the end the costs were very similar but we went for the Architect because we felt we would get a better design going that way because the RICS guy, wonderful portfolio, tended to be a bit restrained in their thinking. This may have been because we wanted a passive level house and the RICS had all the experience wile the Architect had very little which meant the RICS team would tend to start from Passive while the Architect went for design and then worked towards passive.

 

[Declan52]

I would ask both options to show you any previous work they have done which is along the lines of what you propose. 

From looking at some examples of theirs it will give you a better idea if they will be able to deliver what you want. Remember the addresses and either use Google Street view to view the builds or if they are close drive by and if the architects are willing could they put you in touch with these clients so you can ask them how they got on with their builds.

After all this then pick who not only you think will be the best option at the start but some one who you think you will still be able to work with through the build till completion.

[wozza]

My advice would be to go on the local planning website and search for recent planning applications near to / around your location - then see who the architects' were and get them to quote you.

You are spending a lot of money so get more than two quotes.

[canalsiderenovation]

Thanks so much I wasn't expecting such quick responses. 

 

We did a lot of this research already to narrow it down to the two, so we did have more than those to start with. Whilst we aren't after the cheapest, we do want someone who will listen and we can get on with. We would have paid for the RIBA ones IF we thought the money was worth it. We didn't. 

 

The first one, his work was quite basic to be honest, small extensions etc and didn't really have any suggestions, however he did seem keen and the RICS knowledge would be useful. We had a full RICS building survey done by someone else before we bought the house.  One thing that put us off slightly, and this is going to sound odd, he bought his dad who sat in the car so we felt rushed and there was an element of uncomfortableness, kind of like he struggled with people, lack of eye contact etc... In some ways this is digging at us a bit.

 

The second ones had already visited our property (walking along the towpath side opposite our house so arrived already having done some research), invited us to their home based office after quoting and we have been since, showed us all computer based designs, gave us names addresses etc and we were able to see a lot more plans on the website, which included converting a church and a modern self build which is the look we are hoping for.  

 

Reading back it almost sounds like we have made our decision doesn't it? 

 

It's just nerve-racking starting this off. I'm sure as we progress it will get better but it's this initial one - wait til we have to find a builder ?

 

Here is some pics of the property currently and floor plan. We hope to extend out from the kitchen and up. As strange as it all is, actually the person who designed it has been very clever as we have views on every window and sun all throughout the day. And yes, it was build like that and no it has never been two bungalows. 

[Declan52]

Think you already have your mind made up. 

Don't underestimate gut feeling. If you have a bad feeling about someone it's usually right.

[MikeSharp01]

You couldn't wish for a more lovely site, although the water table will be quite high! Something a bit 'striking' will go in there well.

[ProDave]

I only have one question.

 

With a canal / riverside site like that,  Where is your boat?

[canalsiderenovation]

3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

You couldn't wish for a more lovely site, although the water table will be quite high! Something a bit 'striking' will go in there well.

 

The flood risk came back as high risk of surface water flooding, nothing to do with the canal though. Our buildings insurance is £66 a year (cheaper than our previous house in a cul-de-sac) and no history of flooding, and we viewed it multiple times last November/Dec/Jan before completion and every time we had heavy rain and snow! We have a bywash adjacent to the garden (pic) and are right near no less than 5 locks. 

[canalsiderenovation]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

I only have one question.

 

With a canal / riverside site like that,  Where is your boat?

We don't have mooring, there is a bywash adjacent to our garden and I don't think we'd get it, not like we can afford a boat at the moment ?

[joe90]

I’d have a rowing boat or canoe and keep it in the garden.?

[Hecateh]

3 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Reading back it almost sounds like we have made our decision doesn't it?

I often found explaining the options to someone not involved helps clarify the situation and focus the mind on who/what best meets your needs.

[canalsiderenovation]

8 hours ago, joe90 said:

I’d have a rowing boat or canoe and keep it in the garden.?

 

We see kayaks a lot, definitely tempted by a kayak. Would be great in summer, when we need a break from gardening! 

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

We see kayaks a lot, definitely tempted by a kayak. Would be great in summer, when we need a break from gardening! 

 

There was an interview in the Sunday Times this week with Chemmy Alcott, and she was saying how she often goes out on the Thames at Hampton Court on a Paddle Board.

 

Try one of those?

[Ferdinand]

20 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

I'm new here, hoping this is the start of some good advice.

 

You may have done it, but I would probably want a test hole by the house to find out about existing foundations, and perhaps another one if you are doing any sideways extending, to find out a little about ground conditions and let the professionals give me better advice on deeper foundations etc whilst they were in my employ. 

 

If the original architect was as good as it seems, there may be a very good reason underground as to why it is only a bungalow and not a house :-).

 

And - as ever - go to the Council Office and read the entire planning file, or get all of it via an email request or FOI.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Ferdinand

[canalsiderenovation]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

You may have done it, but I would probably want a test hole by the house to find out about existing foundations, and perhaps another one if you are doing any sideways extending, to find out a little about ground conditions and let the professionals give me better advice on deeper foundations etc whilst they were in my employ. 

 

If the original architect was as good as it seems, there may be a very good reason underground as to why it is only a bungalow and not a house :-).

 

And - as ever - go to the Council Office and read the entire planning file, or get all of it via an email request or FOI.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

We viewed the original 1972 plans on microfiche before buying the property. It was a garden/nursery/plant growing area and years before that land associated with an estate. 

 

Plans were for someone in their mid 50s and initially wanted two bungalows but this was turned down due to access over the bridge so they changed it to one. Planning was never sought for a house and I went though all the application and initial plans etc . This was never an option, not because any issues had been raised due to footings or ground conditions but because I guess the person who wanted it never wanted a house. Local neighbours and people in the area confirmed this since, it was a retirement bungalow basically. Then later in life, planning for an annex for another family member was granted but lapsed as the family member in question died. 

 

The RICS surveyor we had initially knew our plans to extend etc and although wasn't specific did say that there was no issues with the current structure and the ground was good, not clay, good ground/soil (probably due to its history as a garden/nursery etc) no cracks in walls etc but I guess at some point we will need this checking..... 

 

[Ferdinand]

You sounded as if you had done your homework :-).

 

[ProDave]

23 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

The flood risk came back as high risk of surface water flooding, nothing to do with the canal though. Our buildings insurance is £66 a year (cheaper than our previous house in a cul-de-sac) and no history of flooding, and we viewed it multiple times last November/Dec/Jan before completion and every time we had heavy rain and snow! We have a bywash adjacent to the garden (pic) and are right near no less than 5 locks. 

So that might make mooring a boat interesting if you were too close to the outflow, but the left hand end of your garden in the other picture looks calm, and with the piling in place probably good to moor a boat.

 

It would be high in my list of "must haves"

 

Which canal?

[canalsiderenovation]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

So that might make mooring a boat interesting if you were too close to the outflow, but the left hand end of your garden in the other picture looks calm, and with the piling in place probably good to moor a boat.

 

It would be high in my list of "must haves"

 

Which canal?

 

Oh yes, we have spent many a summer day and night watching tourists trying to navigate under the bridge with the bywash pushing them into the side when they haven't yet got the hang of steering! 

 

We are on the Shropshire arm of the Llangollen canal close to Whitchurch. 

[canalsiderenovation]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

You sounded as if you had done your homework :-).

 

 

Yep we fell in love with it and did a great deal of research before hand, the house is kind of irrelevant as the plot is lovely, although we have fallen in love with the odd layout to some extent as it just seems to work so well on one hand, but we need more practical space. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by canalsiderenovation

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

Oh yes, we have spent many a summer day and night watching tourists trying to navigate under the bridge with the bywash pushing them into the side when they haven't yet got the hang of steering! 

 

We are on the Shropshire arm of the Llangollen canal close to Whitchurch. 

Ha Ha I will have been past your house then, that was our first trip on a hired narrowboat, about 25 years ago.

[Onoff]

On 20/09/2018 at 13:00, canalsiderenovation said:

Female did 5 out of 7 years RIBA 

 

Female!

 

Name's not Martin Goodman is it?