Onoff Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Whilst that small window is out I'd do a hose test around the upstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Could the up stand not be fully sealed onto the roof. As in that bit is basically just sitting on top not really attached to the roof. Water will then track along the join till it comes out the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, pocster said: It’s strange looking at that concrete block to the right - it’s damp . But no water from above . Like it’s soaked ‘through’ it rather than over it . Of course it’s part of the upstand and has the rubber going over it . So not sure ... Timber and rubber above bone dry ... Water leaks like this can be a pig to trace where the water is getting in as it can sometimes track along horizontally for quite a distance until it finds a weak spot where it then enters the building. While the rooflight is off I'd do a water flood test to try and establish if the water is coming in from the sides of the upstands or not. Get a hosepipe and gently soak the area around the upstand whilst making sure the level of the water doesn't rise up past the top of the rubber. If you get new water entering the building then you will know its not the seal between the rooflight and the upstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ian said: Water leaks like this can be a pig to trace where the water is getting in as it can sometimes track along horizontally for quite a distance until it finds a weak spot where it then enters the building. While the rooflight is off I'd do a water flood test to try and establish if the water is coming in from the sides of the upstands or not. Get a hosepipe and gently soak the area around the upstand whilst making sure the level of the water doesn't rise up past the top of the rubber. If you get new water entering the building then you will know its not the seal between the rooflight and the upstand. What I said. If that doesn't show then soak test other possible ingress points some way from the "problem" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Tried flooding around it . Nothing obvious . Though the block work is still damp so hard to tell . What I have noticed on this window and others are track lines at the corners . Like a hairline crack in the concrete . Presumably somewhere water gets under the rubber and finds these corners . Tanking looks like my best solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Declan52 said: Could the up stand not be fully sealed onto the roof. As in that bit is basically just sitting on top not really attached to the roof. Water will then track along the join till it comes out the other side. The rubber roofing did go up over the upstands . I tested this with no issues . I will use this window as my test . So tank the ceiling and upstand . Refit frame with tons of ct1 between it and upstand . Refit glass with silicone again - then leave and wait for rain ( shouldn’t be long ) . If it stays dry for a month will re do all the units ? Like I said damp appears to be coming in half way through not from the top . Edited August 29, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Got lots of areas where water holds . So they could just be seeping through somewhere Edited August 29, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Another possible water entry point is of course my rubber at the edges . Going to flash this ( mentioned in another thread ) - but can’t do that until paving down . Rain hits stone wall and currently would run straight under rubber ..... So perhaps I’m overly concerned with so many ‘holes’ in the build . Mind you would sleep easier if there was no damp ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Tanking would be a last resort for me. Have you also confirmed that CT1 is suitable for bedding the roof lights as the last one I saw fitted used 2 beads of structural silicon on opposing edges with a zigzag infil between the lines - from memory it was 2 tubes per roof light and they were 600 square. I don’t think you have enough on if you could pull that frame up and I’m not sure CT1 is the correct sealant as your EPDM goes over the upstand and not just up the sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, PeterW said: Tanking would be a last resort for me. Have you also confirmed that CT1 is suitable for bedding the roof lights as the last one I saw fitted used 2 beads of structural silicon on opposing edges with a zigzag infil between the lines - from memory it was 2 tubes per roof light and they were 600 square. I don’t think you have enough on if you could pull that frame up and I’m not sure CT1 is the correct sealant as your EPDM goes over the upstand and not just up the sides. You are probably right ; should use the silicone sealant for securing frame to upstand . None the less that doesn’t seem to be the water ingress issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, pocster said: Rain hits stone wall and currently would run straight under rubber ..... I think your getting to the root of the problem with this statement. Get those windows in really well, get that flashing on and hopefully your there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 58 minutes ago, Cpd said: I think your getting to the root of the problem with this statement. Get those windows in really well, get that flashing on and hopefully your there. Sure thing. Problem is even if I do that and lets assume the damp stops I'll be paranoid and will tank it anyway ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 4 hours ago, pocster said: I'll be paranoid and will tank it anyway Sorry, but i’ve got serious doubts that tanking the inside of the building will do anything at all. The answer is to find out how the water is penetrating past the external membrane and fix it at that location. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Tanking the inside would only delay the water problem if it’s not fixed at it’s starting point. It will just take longer to become an obvious problem but when it does the fix will be MUCH more work, much more disruption and expense...... and will send you mad ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Right I’ll continue with the block paving because I can’t do the flashing until that’s complete . Hoping when that’s done damp stops ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, pocster said: Right I’ll continue with the block paving because I can’t do the flashing until that’s complete . Hoping when that’s done damp stops ..... Why is the flashing dependant on the block paving? I thought you found that the block paving is what introduced the leak... I think you need to look at having a completely waterproof contiguous external skin - all upstands, glazing and flashings in place, thoroughly tested, then do the paving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Why is the flashing dependant on the block paving? I thought you found that the block paving is what introduced the leak... I think you need to look at having a completely waterproof contiguous external skin - all upstands, glazing and flashings in place, thoroughly tested, then do the paving. All of this has been tested During summer ( ie no rain ) I flooded the site for 4 days no leaks . ive just happened to notice while I started the paving the leaks and assumed my upstands . But it’s not then . Flashing will be above paving . It’s not a straightforward flat roof .... So I know the ‘slab’ doesn’t leak . But edges - it’s possible . Will continue the block paving in the other direction I.e towards wall where flashing will be . Then I can see if that flashing makes a difference . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 It’s more than possible I guess that water has been getting under the rubber since it was installed . But this can only be at the edges as slab was tested . probably just coincidence I notice water once block paving started and so assumed up stands . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 No chance the block paving has split the membrane at the upstand(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, Onoff said: No chance the block paving has split the membrane at the upstand(s)? Nope block paving doesn’t touch membrane on up stands . I haunged concrete at base of membrane around upstands deliberately to avoid this . Also I even put another ‘rim’ of membrane around each upstand ( that’s why some look so rough - it’s my extra rim you see ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, pocster said: Nope block paving doesn’t touch membrane on up stands . I haunged concrete at base of membrane around upstands deliberately to avoid this . Also I even put another ‘rim’ of membrane around each upstand ( that’s why some look so rough - it’s my extra rim you see ) Could you maybe drape a full length tarp along the wall(s) where the upstand is, just before heavy rain perhaps tucked up under the gutter to negate water running down the walls and behind the flashing etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, Onoff said: Could you maybe drape a full length tarp along the wall(s) where the upstand is, just before heavy rain perhaps tucked up under the gutter to negate water running down the walls and behind the flashing etc? Yeah I did think of this its a bit awkward but not impossible..... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Could you cut into the wall and form a lead soaker similar to what you would have on a roof. Then at the walls edge put a concrete channel in to collect this water plus any from the paving area and have to run to wherever your closet drain is. If you haven't the height to fit a channel then make your own from some semi dry concrete and a length of 110mm pipe. https://www.raygrahams.com/products/133182-concrete-dished-water-channel-36-x-10-x-5.aspx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Declan52 said: Could you cut into the wall and form a lead soaker similar to what you would have on a roof. Then at the walls edge put a concrete channel in to collect this water plus any from the paving area and have to run to wherever your closet drain is. If you haven't the height to fit a channel then make your own from some semi dry concrete and a length of 110mm pipe. https://www.raygrahams.com/products/133182-concrete-dished-water-channel-36-x-10-x-5.aspx Do I need too ? My flashing at the wall will cover the rubber . I’ll ct1 it aswell - make sure it’s tight ... water should run over pavers into a drain I have at front of plot in essense my flAshing is cut into the wall so I guess is the same as a lead soaker Edited August 30, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, pocster said: Do I need too ? My flashing at the wall will cover the rubber . I’ll ct1 it aswell - make sure it’s tight ... water should run over pavers into a drain I have at front of plot in essense my flAshing is cut into the wall so I guess is the same as a lead soaker The slot in the wall where your flashing goes, does it slope up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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