Mocking up a Kitchen island

[ToughButterCup]

Debbie's been really patient.

And the moment we had our windows in , I  thought it might be time to start a conversation about how she wants her kitchen to be organised. We get surprisingly little talk-it-through-time  and when we do it's clear that mental pictures aren't good enough. There's only so much Pintrest sharing that anyone can stand.

 

So, out of the windows packing casing I made this.

 

The box shape in the foreground is the island - which we hadn't planned for. In an effort to reduce the amount of yet more piss-poor planning, I'd like to plan the island in detail.

 

I've made a start, but what the hell do I need to do next?

 

She wants a hob, an in-island extractor, a fridge, somewhere to charge her command and control device (phone), somewhere to eat, a built in place for hot pans, and a bit of storage. All in 1200 square.

 

Yeah, right. 

 

[PeterW]

So..... is this the main cooking station ..?? Hob needs to be in reasonable reach of the oven so dishes can be swapped. A 1200 island only gives 300 either side of the hob which is pretty tight to get any sort of drop zone in.  In terms of in-island extraction, does she mean the recirculating pop up ones as if so I don’t think you have enough depth at 1200. 

 

The rest is easy - pop up power tower will give power plus USB chargers. 

[ToughButterCup]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So..... is this the main cooking station ..?? Hob needs to be in reasonable reach of the oven so dishes can be swapped. A 1200 island only gives 300 either side of the hob which is pretty tight to get any sort of drop zone in.  In terms of in-island extraction, does she mean the recirculating pop up ones as if so I don’t think you have enough depth at 1200. 

 

The rest is easy - pop up power tower will give power plus USB chargers. 

 

You are right, once you take the basic decision, sooooo many questions follow. Hence the post.

 

Yes to in-island extraction. 

If we pop the hob off center, then that allows for 'placing' hot stuff.  Maybe 1500 square would be better?

 

Should we put the island on the slab, or on the finished floor?

[newhome]

1200 seems pretty tight to do all of that. 1500 would be better IMV. The island here is on the slab and we tiled up to it. Same as the base units round the wall although we should have tiled under the dishwasher we found out later. 

[Jeremy Harris]

5 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

You are right, once you take the basic decision, sooooo many questions follow. Hence the post.

 

Yes to in-island extraction. 

If we pop the hob off center, then that allows for 'placing' hot stuff.  Maybe 1500 square would be better?

 

Should we put the island on the slab, or on the finished floor?

 

I put our Island, and all the kitchen units, on to the finished floor.  The reason is that the flooring is travertine tiles and is likely to outlast the kitchen, so if we fit a new kitchen then there will be flooring everywhere and that will allow for the new kitchen to be a slightly different shape of size.

[ProDave]

Beware of activity spaces and circulation spaces.  You will have to check English BR but up here one must have a 1400mm by 1800mm "circulation space" in the kitchen.  This has forced me to leave a 1400mm gap between the main run of kitchen units and the island.  That seems "too big" and makes the space the other side cramped for the larder, so we are likely not to build the larder yet and after sign off, move the island closer to the main unit then build it.

 

You need a solid top on your mocked up units and then make cardboard templates for a sink, a hob etc and you can position them in different places.

 

For us, the island was as much about a seating area to get the view to the west over the mountains as any cooking purpose, thought he hob is on the island.

 

Re sockets, I have fitted a pop up socket bank on the Island.  I chose this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pop-up-Power-Extension-Sockets-for-Kitchen-Worktop-Office-desktop-Ã-6cm-cable/132544570559?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I chose that, because it is only 6cm diameter, so when retracted drops down into the 7cm wide gap between the back of the island kitchen units and the back panel.  You can get better ones that have USB sockets built in, but they are all much larger diameter, so would have had to drop down inside a cupboard which we did not want.

 

Remember the standard width of an island is 900mm.  Our island is 900 by 1800mm and gives ample seating room for 3 along the back edge.

 

All our units sit on the finished floor.

[Onoff]

Piece of black bin liner with the rings marked in white paint / Tippex makes for a very effective mock up hob:

 

 

 

[PeterW]

As others have said - sit it onto the finished floor and you can always anchor it  using a couple of rawl bolts. 

 

English regs don't need circulation space (thankfully ...) but make the gap between opposing units a minimum of 1100mm as it allows someone to open a dishwasher behind you without cracking your legs ...

 

Also consider cupboard door sizes. UK standard is a 600 module which is ok but means you need to stand a long way back or to the side to open the doors. On a previous kitchen I used dual 300 doors on all top cupboards so they don’t hit you in the face, and currently have fitted one with 500 doors which are much better and don’t seem to have anywhere like the swing of a 600 - odd saying the difference is only 500. 

 

Have a look online at DIY Kitchens as they have a planner and it will help you play about in both 2D and 3D. 

 

@ProDave what is the quality like on those pop ups as I want one but some get poor reviews due to finish of the pop up piece. 

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

@ProDave what is the quality like on those pop ups as I want one but some get poor reviews due to finish of the pop up piece. 

Pleased with it. It seems well made and works well.  As I say it was the only one that was small enough for our particular application and it achieves this by putting the sockets on their side.

 

Drilling the 6cm hole in the 40mm oak worktop gave my hole saw a bashing.

 

I would say 1200 between opposing units is about right, which is probably where ours will end up eventually.

[ToughButterCup]

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

[...]

You need a solid top on your mocked up units and then make cardboard templates for a sink, a hob etc and you can position them in different places.

[...]

I chose that, because it is only 6cm diameter, so when retracted drops down into the 7cm wide gap between the back of the island kitchen units and the back panel.  You can get better ones that have USB sockets built in, but they are all much larger diameter, so would have had to drop down inside a cupboard which we did not want.

 

Remember the standard width of an island is 900mm.  Our island is 900 by 1800mm and gives ample seating room for 3 along the back edge.

 

 

Thats the sort of advice which is almost priceless.

10 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Piece of black bin liner with the rings marked in white paint / Tippex makes for a very effective mock up hob:

 

 

 

 

Ditto.

[PeterW]

Also don’t forget that cupboards don’t need to be back to back - you can side mount 2 base 300 units behind - pair of 600 units and it gives you a breakfast bar type arrangement with storage available. 

 

DIY Kitchens is less than 2 hours from you - worth a day out as they have about 30 display kitchens and it will give you some ideas and inspiration.  They also have free coffee and cake ...... 

[Jeremy Harris]

To save drilling into the finished floor, I anchored all our wall facing units to the walls only and I anchored the island by sticking some lengths of planed 2 x 1 down to the floor, 2" side down, inside the outline of the island carcass.  I used the small angle brackets that seem to come in abundance with a new kitchen to secure the island down to these bits of 2 x 1.  It seems very solid, yet if we needed to replace it I'm reasonably sure I could use a sharp knife and cut the silicone bond holding down the bits of 2 x 1 and so reposition things on the floor to suit a different shape.

 

Other big advantages of flooring the whole kitchen before fitting any units is that you get a dead level floor to work from, plus you can seal around all the edges.  I used some PVC angle that was around 25mm to 30mm and bonded it to the floor and wall all around the bottom where the units went, so that any accidental water spillage could not get to the walls or underneath the flooring.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Also don’t forget that cupboards don’t need to be back to back - you can side mount 2 base 300 units behind - pair of 600 units and it gives you a breakfast bar type arrangement with storage available. 

And you can make the back to back units wall units instead of base units so instead of 1200mm depth it gives you 900mm depth. Then you get the knee tuck for sitting but also a full width of units for stability. For a smaller island though id go with Peters suggestion as that will give you a 'squarer' base rather than the teeter-totter you may get with the 600+300 ( depth ) arrangement. If you fit the 300mm units outboard of the middle of the worktop, you'll have a ~600mm gap to sit at the 'breakfast bar' side of the island. Not entirely sure id like a pan of hot water in my lap though so perhaps this size island doesn't lend itself to being 'sat at'? 

[ProDave]

Our island is just a single run of 600 units.  It is not fixed down, it just stands there under it's own weight.  There is so much stuff (all the pots and pans) that it is not going anywhere.

[Nickfromwales]

If theres no sensible room to go for the pop-up sockets, then make the rear units 'drawer-line' and make a false drawer front thats hinged at the bottom and drops forward using those slider type stays that arrest the fall. Then have your sockets / outlets on a false panel set in about 100mm. When in use the drawer front simply says down, when not they go bye bye when you 'shut' the drawer. All depends on whether or not the socket will be left with something nearly always plugged into it, or if its for occasional use, bearing in mind SWMBO can plug the dog and bone in just a couple of meters away on a worktop socket   

[Construction Channel]

1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

've made a start, but what the hell do I need to do next?

 

Dont forget to run the cables to the island. ??

[Onoff]

Let's be honest here, if there's women involved then the thing needs to be on lockable castors so SHE can move it that fraction to the left / right later on. As even though she agreed on the position, took photos to prove it and signed in blood she didn't really want it where you bolted it down! 

[ToughButterCup]

@Onoff  - Debbie says have you got any advice on childbirth?

[Stones]

Agree that 1200mm to position a hob is going to be far too tight.  Ours sits in an 1800mm run and that's about the minimum I think would be acceptable (see first picture in blog entry)

 

 

Do you have an idea as yet whether the eating area is to be formed from a simple overhang of worktop or raised structure of some sort?  Have you thought about doing as we have done (also pictured) of hiding the worktop area with a dwarf wall?

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

@Onoff  - Debbie says have you got any advice on childbirth?

 

That's it, draw me into making sexist comments!

 

Joking aside it's scientifically proven that women's feet are smaller so they can get closer to the sink etc. Handy when considering cupboard depths and worktop overhangs...

 

 

 

 

 

[newhome]

39 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

And you can make the back to back units wall units instead of base units so instead of 1200mm depth it gives you 900mm depth.

 

Mine is done like this, plus base units mounted sideways at the ends a la @PeterW‘s suggestion. Leaves a 350mm overhang. 

[newhome]

Assuming you want the hob in the middle of one side of the island where do you plan to put the fridge? 

[Ed Davies]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

but up here one must have a 1400mm by 1800mm "circulation space" in the kitchen.

That is an ellipse, though, not a rectangle and can be overhung to a certain extent by a worktop (at least 750 high, maximum 300mm horizontally) as it's intended to allow a wheelchair user to turn around. For my kitchen with nominal 1200 between the worktops on each side I'll just put shallow shelves under one side to get the 1400 width needed. Doesn't have to stay like that forever, of course.

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

That is an ellipse, though, not a rectangle and can be overhung to a certain extent by a worktop (at least 750 high, maximum 300mm horizontally) as it's intended to allow a wheelchair user to turn around. For my kitchen with nominal 1200 between the worktops on each side I'll just put shallow shelves under one side to get the 1400 width needed. Doesn't have to stay like that forever, of course.

It is is an ellipse. I have the unit fronts face to face 1400 apart with a small worktop overhang.

 

As it happens I still have the same circulation space the other side when you allow for the worktop overhang.

 

But I suspect my Island might move a little after sign off.

[HerbJ]

 

Our kitchen  island is 1200mm wide but 2100mm long on one side, 1800mm long on the other, with a round table fitted in. 

 

A key dimension is the distance between the island and wall units, we have 1100mm which is good but 1000mm would be the minimum - we haad only 900mm in previous kitchen and that is tight!  I have attached a photo and plan of the kitchen, to give you some idea of scale

 

Our sockets are simply fitted into the side of the island - double socket  at each end - you can just see one of them behind the bowl of fruit

 .

That's a Gaulhofer window, 1500X1200mm,  over the sink.

 

The fan is a recirculation fan, ELICA bought online from Italy for a large discount on UK price (though euro rate was very much better than at the present).

 

We tiled the floor before fitting any units. The island unit is not fixed down, but sits there under it's own weight.

Quote 4_Plan view-1 stephanies design.pdf