Russell griffiths Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Good morning, @JSHarris I think you may be the man for this we have an ongoing (2years ) problem with a neighbour at our current house it turns out their water main runs under our garden and is prone to springing a leak last night I discovered it had burst again, but this time it seems more serious the burst looks like it must be under an area where both our leech fields for the septic tanks are we have an evil smelling black dirty water rising out of the ground. I am considering turning off her water supply today, but this could have some implications and lead to a bit of a legal battle. QUESTION. what type of nasty things can I expect to find in this water what precautions should we take what can I do to clean the area. Many thanks, russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Best bet initially is to NOT turn off the supply, as turning it off almost guarantees that effluent will enter the pipe via the leak, as the downstream pressure drops. The risk is that the leak will get so bad that it may draw in effluent during momentary pressure drops on the downstream side, and there's a very high risk that the effluent may be infected with some nasty bugs, especially if the leach field is more than around 8 to 10 years old and has started to go anaerobic. From your description of black water it sounds as if the leach field failed a while ago, so has been anaerobic and potentially toxic for a fair time (the primary sign of a failed leach field is black soil around the land drains). Dig around the leak area until you find the pipe and then try and clear the area around the leak. With luck, given the good soil drainage you probably have around there, the hole you dig won't completely fill with water. Do you know what sort of pipe it is? I'm guessing it's an old iron pipe if it's prone to developing regular leaks. Fixing the pipe is the neighbours problem, provided it isn't contaminating your fresh water supply. The leach field will recover around that area once the leak is fixed and will be safer than it was before within a few days, as aerobic soil bacteria clean up the upper surface around that area. Worth warning the neighbour that there is a risk that toxic effluent may be drawn into her water supply, and not to use showers and to boil all drinking water until it's fixed. I'm assuming here that nothing you have done could have caused the leak. As an aside, one has to question why a potable water supply pipe is running across a leach field - that's against the regs, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 +1 on not turning the water off. If you dig down, you'll probably need a means of directly disposing of the spoil as it will lead to further contamination if piled up and it rains for eg. Dig and skip or farmers trailer / other and get rid as you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The best solution I can see is replace the entire run across your land with a new mdpe pipe going around, not over or under your leach field. Then you don't have to disturb that. A lot of work, but you should only have to do it once and there will be no problem. At his expense of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbJ Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ProDave said: At his expense of course. Presumably your neighbour has the right to have the free passage and running of water ( and maybe also soil, gas and electricity) from his land by and through the channels, drains, cables and pipes running through your land. If so, a right was probably also granted in favour of the neighbour to enter your land for the purposes of maintaining, repairing and renewing the water pipe ( and any drains, cables and pipes, making good any damage caused). It's worth checking.... Edited August 13, 2018 by HerbJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 @Russell griffiths Call the water supply company and tell them they have a burst supply pipe in your garden. Let them deal with the neighbour and turn off the supply. Then there will be no come back to you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Triassic said: @Russell griffiths Call the water supply company and tell them the6 have a burst supply pipe in your garden. Let them deal with the neighbour and turn off the supply. Then there will be no come back to you. Very good point, and one I'd forgotten about. The law changed a few years ago and all communications pipes like this ceased to be private property and became the property of the water company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Only just got to this @Russell griffiths. I'm with jurassic or triassic and J on this one... offer the problem to the right person. I appreciate the urgency though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Thanks for all the replies i have turned the pressure down to slow the leak, but not off as @JSHarris pointed out. Very good point. This is an ongoing dispute we have with the very elderly and very unwell neighbour please tell me im wrong, I was under the impression that any pipework on the house side of the meter is the responsibility of the home owner. We have had the water authority out on so many occasions we are on first name terms. They have always said it is the neighbours responsibility as it is on her side of the meter. Just before last Christmas it burst again, she said she had no money to fix it, so Thames water had to put her an emergency overground supply in that ran across our front garden for six weeks. This has been going on for over two years and has burst 6 times. I may continue this this if I think I could do with some legal input. We have already spoken to a solicitor i am currently taking a softly softly approach and hoping she dies very soon. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but she is the nastiest old lady I have ever met. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Russell, I'd keep the pressure as high as you can - lowering it increases the risk of contamination into the water supply. The last thing you need is to be held responsible for a change to her water supply that causes her harm. I'm assuming here that you have no rights over that pipe or her stopcock at all. @Temp may know the law on this, but I was fairly sure that communications pipes crossing land owned by others were the responsibility of the water company. Not sure the location of the meter is relevant in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 At the moment @JSHarris with the pressure low the evil black water has stopped coming out of the ground i believe if I turn it back up it will probably start again. With this pumping out of the ground I have to walk through it to get to my garage, I also have to drive through it and we are worried about the dog walking it in. At the moment with the pressure turned down, the meter spins rapidly making me think a good squirt is coming out, preventing any nasties getting in. When I have previously (5 times) repaired this pipe it has always been a very small split. I intend going to see her tonight with a firm warning NOT to drink the water or shower I will suggest she contacts Thames water in the first instance to get an emergency over land supply put in. New water main WILL be installed in the next month or two, not through my land. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 According to Anglian Water the old lady is responsible for the pipe from where it enters your boundary, across your garden to her house. Some water companies will fix the first leak on customer owned pipes or free but the bit in my bold might be of interest... https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/households/supply-and-standards/leakage/ Quote Repairing leaks on customers’ pipes The majority of companies provide free leak detection for non-household customers and some also offer these customers a free repair. Most companies that offer it, restrict the free repair service to the first leak and for external leaks (not those from beneath the property). Some companies limit repairs to owner occupied properties. If your supply pipe is in poor condition some companies may replace it free of charge rather than repair it, or offer a grant towards the cost of this work. You need to contact your water company to find out whether they offer free or subsidised repairs. If a leak is in your supply pipe and not covered by the water company’s free repair service, you will be responsible for repairing it. If the leak is not repaired within a certain time, the water company may carry out the repair and charge you for the work. So one option would be to report the leak and the fact that it's been going on for awhile and see if they will fix it and send her the bill. However, that may only fix the immediate leak. I hate to suggest it but I think you may need legal advice. eg. to find out if you can fix the pipe once and for all and send her a bill. Does your house insurance cover legal protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) Have you phoned the water company? You really need to do this urgently as your sewage could affect the health of your neighbour. Without doubt sewage water is being drawn into the their supply pipe, this is based on sampling I had done in a similar situation. The fluctuations in pressure result in a Venturi effect pulling in contaminated liquids. You should not turn off, adjust or interfere with your neighbours supply. You should allow access to do a repair bit it’s up to the neighbour to sort this leak out and repair any damage to your property, if necessary their insurance should cover this. Edited August 13, 2018 by Triassic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Thought about this some more.. In cases where someone causes a statutory nuisance you can take them to court for damages, however the court expects you to minimise the cost of any damages (no stays at the Ritz when Travel Lodge will do). So a court might look unfavorably on any claim for damages caused by you NOT turning off her water. I can't claim to be a legal expert but I think you would be on safe ground if you took the following steps... Write to her recorded delivery to notify her that her pipe is leaking and keep copy and receipt or posting etc. In the letter point out that she is liable for repairs and any damage that the leak causes. You can offer to help her turn off the water but say that if she doesn't take action (within say 48 hours) you will be forced to turn off her water yourself to prevent damage to your property for which she will be liable. I've also been told by a solicitor that if you warn someone that their action or inaction might cause damage, and they go ahead anyway, then they open themselves up to additional damages for negligence. My guess is that if when you turn off the water she will come around fuming. So I would be tempted to let to police know in advance what you are going to do. eg Just pop in the police station and tell them about the leak and that you will be turning off the water at <time> to prevent damage to your property. Say you are worried how she might react so you are just letting them know in case you have to call later about a breach of the peace. They might even offer to be there when you turn it off. Might also be wise to contact both the water co and social services both by phone and in writing at the same time you write to the neighbour to let them know you may have to turn off the water supply to a vulnerable person. Might find that's enough to get the water company out to fix it. PS: In cases where a leak in one property affects another the police have powers to break in and turn off the water under the auspices of the 'Police and Criminal Evidence Act' on the grounds of 'preventing serious damage to property'. So if they tell you not to turn off her water ask them to come and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Bit late on this one but....... My neighbours water supply passes under my garden and driveway, their stopcock is in my verge. Four years ago we developed a wet patch on the drive which got progressively worse. We talked to the neighbour without much success. We then contacted Severn Trent who sent out an engineer within 24 Hours, 48 hours later the leak was fixed at no cost to us or the neighbour. The neighbour was recommended to have the whole feed replaced but declined. Her supply is/was not metered. The back story at the time seemed to be that the water company was looking for easy to fix leaks to appease the regulators - So a 2 hour fix in in easy to access location ticked at lot of boxes. Don't assume that the water company wont be interested in fixing this - There's (still) a lot of politics in leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 I too had a leak on my own land but was unable to find it (meter was bombing round with no taps on) water co. come out and not only found the leak (an old stopcock buried in the front lawn) but repaired it and refunded the excess water usage based on previous readings. I was told this would only happen once, if it happens again I would have to pay. I was a very happy bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Thanks all for replies as I said this has been going on for the last 2 years. The water co are not really interested as they have been out at least a dozen times She has used up all the freebies insurance company are not interested as they have paid twice already to fix it. The wheels are in motion to get it replaced i was mainly concerned regarding the dirty water coming out of the ground. If we had children I would have gone and told her immediately and shut off her supply being its me and the wife I can live with it a bit for the next couple of weeks it may have actually done us a favour as we are insisting it is replaced in its entirety and removed from our property we have even offered to pay half. Bloody hell im a nice bloke. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Bloody hell im a nice bloke. In deed you are! if I were her I’d be boiling the water at the very least. The thought of poo contaminated water is turning my stomach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Turn the water pressure back up immediately. Every time she flushes a loo the water pressure will drop and your black milkshake will be creeping into her fresh water feed. I would possibly go back and edit the bit about you wishing she was brown bread too, in case you do accidentally kill the "old dear". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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