Dreadnaught Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) What to do about a sewer than Anglian Water knows nothing about? Outside my plot is an un-adopted concrete road used by me and about four neighbours . Depsite all parties checking on multiple occasions, no owner of the road has ever been found. Underneath the road are two sewers, recently mapped by a neighbour in preparation for a rebuild that they will do. One sewer is easy. The surface drain sewer is on Anglian Water's maps. But the other sewer, the foul sewer, is a mystery. Its not on their maps and they have no other records of it. Multiple neighbours are connected to the foul sewer, we think from the 1960's. The foul sewer, after leaving the unadopted road, then disappears to follow a private road which is part of a neighbouring small estate of private flats, eventually one assumes to join the main sewer on the other side. A local SE has advised me informally there should be no problem with the capacity of this mysterious foul sewer for me to connect to it. I am in touch with Anglian Water (a friendly Drainage Support Technician). So far he said he can't find any information on the sewer and is metaphorically shrugging his shoulders. What to do? Could I ask for foul sewer to be mapped? If so how? Should I explore adoption? If so how? Might I just ignore the problem for now and connect to it when the time comes, no further questions asked. (I am at the stage of buying my plot but have been looking a services to see if there are any price shocks down the line). Any advice gratefully received. Edited July 25, 2018 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just connect to it. It will be a private sewer and Anglian won't care anyway until there is an issue. Not the first time I've heard of them not wanting to know about connections either !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'm not sure how payment for water and sewers works in England as in Scotland it's paid as part of council tax. Are the existing neighbors paying Anglian Water monthly for the sewer, if so you could maybe use that angle - why have they been paying for sewer service for x years when Anglian don't think they own it, could be a costly refund required by Anglian! You might struggle to get a contractor to connect to the sewer without permission from the owner. We are currently in a similar situation, sewer is owned by a developer who in in the process of transferring ownership to Scottish Water. However until Scottish Water own it we don't have permission to connect. Other thing to do it ask your local MP to investigate, my MSP wrote to the CEO of Scottish Water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Connect and forget until the sh** hits the fan. Which it probably won't. Hopefully. Maybe. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Connect and forget until the sh** hits the fan. Which it probably won't. Hopefully. Maybe. ? There could be multiple sh*ts hitting the fan, no one can prove they are @Dreadnaught‘s without a DNA sample ?. Sh*t happens, just flush it and move on ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Oh, dear. I know, I started it. Sorry. This thread's going down the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) Thanks all. That's helpful! (BH dodgy humour included ). Should I be worried about the capacity of the foul sewer to take the new connection? The foul sewer is 100 mm diameter. As I mentioned, one SE who has looked at the sewer said in passing that he couldn't see a problem. But obviously the consequences if I did need to lay a new sewer would be large. Low-probability high-severity issue worth investigating? Or barking-up-the-wrong-tree? Edited July 25, 2018 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Dreadnaught said: Thanks all. That's helpful! (BH dodgy humour included ). Should I be worried about the capacity of the foul sewer to take the new connection? The foul sewer is 100 mm diameter. As I mentioned, one SE who has looked at the sewer said in passing that he couldn't see a problem. But obviously the consequences if I did need to lay a new sewer would be large. Low-probability high-severity issue worth investigating? Or barking-up-the-wrong-tree? It's not the size, it's volume. FW is just fit to and forget. The only one you could get issue with is the rainwater as deluge / floodwater from heavy rain could push past its capacity when all of you are discharging. Can you do a soakaway for some mitigation against that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: The only one you could get issue with is the rainwater as deluge / floodwater from heavy rain could push past its capacity when all of you are discharging. Can you do a soakaway for some mitigation against that? Thanks @Nickfromwales. A soakaway could be squeezed in but the site is small and tight. But I am hopeful it wont be needed. There is good surface water sewer (diameter 300mm) in the road right next to the foul drain. I think it drains straight in to the river about 40m away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The main combined sewer for our whole village showed it stopping about 100m from Severn Trent's own water treatment works. We needed to connect to the part that wasn't on their maps. They swore blind stopped where they had it mapped to in spite of us lifting the existing manhole & sending them photos. In the end they sent out a 'sewer investigation team'. It then took several weeks before they acknowledged that it existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, PeterW said: Just connect to it. It will be a private sewer and Anglian won't care anyway until there is an issue. Not the first time I've heard of them not wanting to know about connections either !! Unless you will be at the far end of the sewer, it will be a public sewer as all sewers were adopted by the local water companies in 2011, whether or not they were mapped or are aware of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Outside my plot is an un-adopted concrete road used by me and about four neighbours . Depsite all parties checking on multiple occasions, no owner of the road has ever been found. Is that road also needed for access? I ask because if no owner can be traced then anyone (angry neighbour etc) could fence it off and obstruct your access. You would not be able to legally evict them because only the land owner can evict someone. You couldn't remove their fence without committing criminal damage. Your neighbours might be able to go to court and claim they have acquired a right of access but perhaps not you? In Huntingdon there was an issue a few years ago over rubbish collections from private roads. The council suddenly discovered they needed the land owners details so they had someone to bill if the condition of the road caused damage or an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Thanks @Temp. Very valid point. Yes the unadopted road is needed for access. Fortunately, the unadopted road continues past my entrance to a gate that is in constant use by some other neighbours (rowing clubs) on private land beyond. Fortunately, if the road were blocked by anyone then they would be up-in-arms well before me. On rubbish collection, another good point. In my case, the planning permission requires me to wheel my bin 40m to the corner of the next road, which is a normal adopted road. Thats fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) You can easily map it yourself. Fill a few buckets of water with a bright food gel dye mixed in. Open the manhole lids that you think it goes through and pour a bucket down. You will soon see if it is the same sewer pipe. If you need to find the exact location as it goes by your plot you can use a set of sewer rods and a CAT and mouse. On the plus side as the road is concrete it will be much cheaper and easier to reinstate than a asphalt/bitmac rd. Edited July 25, 2018 by Declan52 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 @Declan52, thanks. Every days a school day! All new to me. Really great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke2 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Hi The law on such drains changed a few years back. I'm not 100% on the technicalities but, all foul drains in the ground that serve two or more properties is now classed as a public sewer. So if a drain was laid as private and served just one house, then later a second house was attached, then it becomes public. This link shows an illustration:- https://www.stwater.co.uk/help-and-contact/faqs/are-my-drains-public-or-private/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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