The tale of the sale of our old house

[Jeremy Harris]

Thanks @Alphonsox, First Direct are currently top of my list to look at.  We have a branch of HSBC locally, too, which makes them even more attractive for the rare occasions when we need to actually go into a bank for something.

[ProDave]

Well done on exchanging contracts. That should be the worry over and it should all complete now.

 

The conveyancing process seems stuck in the dark ages.  I often feel after a few weeks what is needed is for all partied to have a face to face meeting where all the issues could be trashed out in a matter of minutes, rather than  weeks and weeks of slow communication and slow answers.

[billt]

It's not the conveyancing process that's stuck in the dark ages, it's the people who administrate the system, i.e. conveyancers; those minions employed by solicitors, generally and inaccurately referred to as solicitors.

 

For instance, we've just completed the sale of my late mother-in-laws house. The conveyancing took less than 5 hours. Lynne went to her "solicitors" office to sign the contract, contracts were exchanged by phone and the money was in her account later that afternoon.

 

All the fannying around has nothing to do with the conveyancing process, but everything to do with third parties being incompetent and wishing to cover their backs for every possible or impossible contingency. Of course all the obscurities that are possible with this system can be used to the advantage of one or other party. When I bought my first property I wasn't in a particular hurry and asked if the solicitor (he was actually a solicitor in this case) could delay the transaction. He was happy to delay it as much as I wanted - a few weeks in the end.

[jack]

2 hours ago, Alphonsox said:

Regarding banks I would recommend First Direct - I've been with them since they started and have always found them extremely capable and have never had any issues. They are consitantly rated as the best personal bank in the UK. 

 

I'm with First Direct too. We got our mortgage through them, and had to open an account. I was fully prepared to move once the deal was done, but was so impressed with their service that I stayed. They're simply the most professional organisation I deal with day to day. It's all done by phone, but you get through to them fast and their staff are exceptional.

[jack]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

Thanks @Alphonsox, First Direct are currently top of my list to look at.  We have a branch of HSBC locally, too, which makes them even more attractive for the rare occasions when we need to actually go into a bank for something. 

 

It's extremely rare that anything's needed in person, but as you say, HSBC handles such things as required. I needed some documents sighted by the bank once, and it was handled with no fuss by HSBC.

[Jeremy Harris]

  Our conveyancer was pretty good, but I never knew quite who was being honest and telling the truth during the many delays.  We started off by telling all interested buyers that we needed to fix a date for completion.  We weren't too fussed about doing the process within hours or days, but we did need to have time for my wife to be able to arrange time off work, and we made this very clear to everyone who we thought was interested enough to make an offer, and instructed our estate agent to relay this when we he was sifting through offers for us and giving advice. 

 

As the process dragged on, I at first thought that our buyer was just a bit naive, then thought that the buyer was being taken for a ride by her surveyor (( still believe there's an element of truth in that) but finally didn't know what to think, as I was being told one thing directly by the buyer and our conveyancer was being told the opposite by the buyers solicitor/conveyancer.  In the end I felt that our conveyancer was being pretty honest, and she was 'phoning me practically every day over the last few weeks, updating us on what was, or more often what wasn't, going on.

 

I'm heartily sick of the whole process, and neither of us have the slightest regrets over getting rid of the old house at all, in fact I doubt we'll ever be interested enough to drive past it in future to see what's being done to it.  We both just looking forward to being mortgage-free once again and having our savings pots topped back up to pretty much where they were before we started the self build.  I might even get around to ordering the new car I've been thinking about for a while now; not yet sure what it'll be though.

 

@jack, thanks for sharing your experience with First Direct, I'm pretty sure they will stay top of our list.  Our main problem is that we do 99% of our banking without going near a bank, either with cards or online, but because we can't get a mobile phone signal we need a bank that doesn't rely on using text messages for verification of payments.  Our current bank only provides an online payment verification/authorisation service by text message, and it's a complete PITA.  To make any payment (like paying the Royal Mail earlier this week for mail redirection) I need to get it all set up online, turn my phone on, press the "submit" key, then get in the car and drive to the top of the hill in time to get the text message.  I then have to rush back down and hope that the payment screen hasn't locked me out for not entering the verification code fast enough.  Easy to use it is not!

[jack]

27 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

@jack, thanks for sharing your experience with First Direct, I'm pretty sure they will stay top of our list.  Our main problem is that we do 99% of our banking without going near a bank, either with cards or online, but because we can't get a mobile phone signal we need a bank that doesn't rely on using text messages for verification of payments.  

 

I'll check with my wife (she does all the banking in our house) when she's back, but I don't believe First Direct requires anything to be done by text. I'm pretty sure they do everything via the web, with a hardware authentication device to confirm both login and transactions.

 

For larger transactions or anything out of the ordinary, she calls them.

[Jeremy Harris]

26 minutes ago, jack said:

 

I'll check with my wife (she does all the banking in our house) when she's back, but I don't believe First Direct requires anything to be done by text. I'm pretty sure they do everything via the web, with a hardware authentication device to confirm both login and transactions.

 

For larger transactions or anything out of the ordinary, she calls them.

 

 

Thanks again.  That's my understanding too, that they use a small unit that looks like a calculator, that you slide your card into, in order to generate an authentication code.  Seems a damned site better than relying on a relatively insecure text message sent via a flaky mobile phone signal!

[newhome]

I'm going to sign up to First Direct when I get round to it. I have come to the end of my patience with TSB finally. I only kept the account as it's the one I have had open since I started work and I can remember the sort code and account number easily lol. Had a disaster when they first moved onto Sabadell infrastructure and my account was locked due to 'potentially fraudulent activity' (ie me trying to do a transfer of funds to another bank as I'd done many times before), and then they were in meltdown so there was no one who could contact me to unlock it so I had no access to my main account for days. Just about got over that and last week tried to open up a new monthly saver account as I'd done several times before with pretty much one click of the mouse. Not this time - get a message "To build a better bank for you, we’re currently upgrading our systems. You can still open new accounts in our branches and we're introducing our products online over the coming weeks". Crap. Drove the 16 mile round trip to the branch to be told that you have to make an appointment to open one and there was no one who could do it for me. So First Direct here I come. 

 

 

[ProDave]

Re which bank.

 

It's very different for me as a self employed tradesman, a lot of people pay me by cash or cheque, so I need a bank I can visit without a huge detour to pay money in.  Everything else I do on line.

 

At the moment RBS is filling that need, but I fear the end is near. Earlier this year they closed a lot of branches, but thankfully ours was spared, but I feel that is only a matter of time before the axe falls on that.  There is a Bank of Scotland in town, otherwise it's a 20 mile drive.

 

There is no longer any bank branch left on the Black Isle. They now have to go into Inverness if then need something physical.

 

@JSHarris at least RBS (or Natwest where you are) don't need a mobile phone to verify payments, that is done by putting your card into a card reader that they supply that generates a number for you to type in.

[Jeremy Harris]

My card got blocked last week, during my first attempt to pay Royal Mail for the redirection service.  Took me nearly an hour of hanging around on the phone to get it unblocked.  The reason it was blocked was because I didn't drive back down the hill fast enough, and found I was locked out of the payment verification screen.  I tried again later, drove a lot faster, and just made it...

[jack]

43 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Thanks again.  That's my understanding too, that they use a small unit that looks like a calculator, that you slide your card into, in order to generate an authentication code.  Seems a damned site better than relying on a relatively insecure text message sent via a flaky mobile phone signal!

 

Close, but not quite - you don't slide your card into the version we have. You log into the website with an ordinary password, then the next step is to enter a verification code generated by the device. I assume the code is just a hash based on the current time, but only the holder of the device can generate the code. 

 

When setting up a new payee, you enter the last 4 digits of their account number into the device and it generates a code based on that. 

 

In short, you don't need possession of your card to do banking, but you do need the hardware device.

[dpmiller]

I'm with FirstTrust over here (previously TSB before they dumped us out...) and both they and the Ulster Bank use the calculator-ey code generator. Works well, hassle free.

 

FT more recently closed our most local branches, but did a deal with the Post Office so it's actually easier for me to make lodgements now than whenever there was a branch. Walk round the corner to the PO counter at the local Spar, hand envelope over, done.

[newhome]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

At the moment RBS is filling that need, but I fear the end is near. Earlier this year they closed a lot of branches, but thankfully ours was spared, but I feel that is only a matter of time before the axe falls on that.  There is a Bank of Scotland in town, otherwise it's a 20 mile drive.

 

RBS closed the local branch in Dunbar a few months ago. They now have a weekly mobile van that arrives so anyone who wants to do things 'in branch' has to queue in all weathers to wait for the van to arrive. The very first week it was due to arrive there was an early queue but 2 hours later the van hadn't turned up. It had been in North Berwick (the stop before) but no one knew what had happened after that. Turns out it broke down between North Berwick and Dunbar. You couldn't make it up! They've lost quite a few customers to Bank of Scotland and TSB that are still on Dunbar High Street. Not having a branch doesn't particularly bother me but if banks are going to say 'you can only do this in branch' they do have to make provision for that. 

 

[Square Feet]

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

My card got blocked last week, during my first attempt to pay Royal Mail for the redirection service.  Took me nearly an hour of hanging around on the phone to get it unblocked.  The reason it was blocked was because I didn't drive back down the hill fast enough, and found I was locked out of the payment verification screen.  I tried again later, drove a lot faster, and just made it...

Can't you just use your phone as a hotspot and connect your laptop to it?  That way you can do the whole thing in the car without the panic.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

Can't you just use your phone as a hotspot and connect your laptop to it?  That way you can do the whole thing in the car without the panic.

 

 

Unfortunately not.  As we've never been able to get a mobile signal for the past 20 years (new house is the same as the old one, no signal, a common problem around here, with most of the villages down in deep valleys) so we don't really ever use mobile phones except when out in the car.   Neither of us has ever been allowed to take a mobile phone into work, either (although I retired 8 years ago now), so the opportunity to use a mobile has always just been in the car (hands free) and when on holiday.

 

As a consequence, we both have really basic, call and text only Nokia mobiles, (cost around £10 IIRC, but they easily last a month on a single charge) on PAYG SIMS.  There's no point in having a smart phone that doesn't work for 99% of the time, and anyway I can't be arsed trying to do things on a small screen.  I noticed my wife's started using a hand held magnifying glass to use her iPad recently, so a smart phone screen would be just impossible.  I use a 24" screen on my PC, and there are plenty of times that I could do with a larger screen!

 

 

[Dreadnaught]

22 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

we both have really basic, call and text only Nokia mobiles

 

Which also explains why you cannot use a "Wifi Calling" feature, which is offered by many mobile networks operators and would enable you to receive the needed SMS while within the signal not-spot that is your home. Wifi Calling requires support by the handset and I have only ever heard of it being available on smart phones.

 

More about "Wifi Calling" here if anyone is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network

Edited November 18, 2018 by Dreadnaught

[Jeremy Harris]

46 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

RBS closed the local branch in Dunbar a few months ago. They now have a weekly mobile van that arrives so anyone who wants to do things 'in branch' has to queue in all weathers to wait for the van to arrive. The very first week it was due to arrive there was an early queue but 2 hours later the van hadn't turned up. It had been in North Berwick (the stop before) but no one knew what had happened after that. Turns out it broke down between North Berwick and Dunbar. You couldn't make it up! They've lost quite a few customers to Bank of Scotland and TSB that are still on Dunbar High Street. Not having a branch doesn't particularly bother me but if banks are going to say 'you can only do this in branch' they do have to make provision for that. 

 

 

What's really sad is the way RBS went down the pan so quickly.  When we were living in Scotland we decided to move house.  We had been with the Abbey National for years, so when we found a nice house in Portpatrick, I popped into the Stranraer branch to get their approval in principle for a small change to our mortgage.  I knew it was a formality, as we were well within they lending criteria, income, LTV etc, but needed written confirmation that the mortgage was agreed in principle before submitting our offer (as you do in Scotland).  The manager of the local Abbey National branch was away on a training course, and they apparently had no means of dealing with her absence, so were unable to provide us with the required letter.  After three days of hassle, I gave up and started walking around town seeing what the others could offer. 

 

The Bank of Scotland were a shambles.  They wanted to see my passport (which I didn't have with me) before they would even discuss the possibility of a mortgage, as they needed me to open an account with them before they would discuss anything.  The Clydesdale weren't much better, either.  The RBS were a breath of fresh air.  They called their mortgage adviser back from lunch early, who sat down with me, went through my earnings, history with the Abbey National, price of the house we wanted to make an offer on that day and I walked out after around 40 minutes with a written agreement in principle for the mortgage we needed.  I went straight around to see our lawyer and submitted an offer that afternoon, an we ended up buying the best house we've ever lived in, in a truly wonderful community.  Throughout the whole process RBS were outstanding, as was their banking service.  That continued for years, with really excellent customer service.  Two examples:

 

I was going to the USA to buy some light aircraft parts, and had arranged with the RBS to pick up a fairly large wedge of US dollars before I went.  There was a cock-up, and the currency didn't arrive in time, but the RBS pulled out all the stops, and whilst I was driving to Heathrow, they couried the dollars to Thomas Cook, and gave me a password to collect the money from the Thomas Cook booth at Heathrow.  This worked like clockwork.

 

Second example.  We were in Florida at an airshow and I'd arranged to take a prospective customer for one of our aircraft out to dinner.  All went well until I tried to pay with my Barclaycard (even then it was a platinum one), when the card was refused (anyone who's had a card refused in the US will know how you're treated).  Luckily I had enough cash, but we lost the aircraft sale.  I rang Barclaycard, and they told me they had blocked my card because I was using it in the US, and they had sent me a letter, to which I needed to reply, in order to get it unblocked.  Of course this letter was sat in our home in the UK...

 

In desperation, at around 2am local time, I rang the RBS 24 hour helpline and explained the problem.  They were brilliant.  They agreed to send me an RBS card as quickly as they could.  The next morning we went back to the show, and when we got back to the hotel at around 6pm, there was a package waiting for us from the RBS, that had been sent express delivery from the UK.  One phone call to the RBS to activate it and all was well with the world.

 

Sadly, a few years later they ripped me off big time with some investments, breached their own rules, and after a six month battle with the FSA I got all my money back, plus compensation for miss-selling.  I promptly closed all our accounts with the RBS and made another mistake - jumped from the frying pan to the fire by opting to switch to Santander, who turned out to be the biggest bunch of bastards I've ever encountered, but that's another story...

[Jeremy Harris]

24 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Which also explains why you cannot use a "Wifi Calling" feature, which is offered by many mobile networks operators and would enable you to receive the needed SMS while within the signal not-spot that is your home. Wifi Calling requires support by the handset and I have only ever heard of it being available on smart phones.

 

More about "Wifi Calling" here if anyone is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network

 

Yes, it would be useful occasionally, but I just can't justify the cost of a smartphone just to get this feature, when we pretty much exclusively use the landline for 'phone calls.

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Thanks again.  That's my understanding too, that they use a small unit that looks like a calculator, that you slide your card into, in order to generate an authentication code.  Seems a damned site better than relying on a relatively insecure text message sent via a flaky mobile phone signal!

 

FD use your phone to generate the code but it can be attached to WiFi to create the code. Got to say they have the best systems by far and I’ve no issues using them. 

[Dreadnaught]

18 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 I promptly closed all our accounts with the RBS and made another mistake - jumped from the frying pan to the fire by opting to switch to Santander, who turned out to be the biggest bunch of bastards I've ever encountered, but that's another story...

 

I still have some of my popcorn left… so do tell… (plus we have a business account with Santander)

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

 

FD use your phone to generate the code but it can be attached to WiFi to create the code. Got to say they have the best systems by far and I’ve no issues using them. 

 

So, does that mean I have to fork out a few hundred quid for a wifi enabled smartphone, simply to use First Direct online banking?  I know that neither of us would have any use at all for a smart phone, other than to access online banking, so that makes it a very expensive way to just use a banking service.

[jack]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

FD use your phone to generate the code but it can be attached to WiFi to create the code. Got to say they have the best systems by far and I’ve no issues using them. 

 

Just now, JSHarris said:

So, does that mean I have to fork out a few hundred quid for a wifi enabled smartphone, simply to use First Direct online banking?  I know that neither of us would have any use at all for a smart phone, other than to access online banking, so that makes it a very expensive way to just use a banking service.

 

No, it sounds like they offer multiple options. I've just checked with my wife and she definitely doesn't use her phones for codes, just the hardware hash generating device which they supply free. I have exactly the same setup for my HSBC business account. Nothing at all happens on or via my phone. I don't even have an HSBC app installed.

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

I still have some of my popcorn left… so do tell… (plus we have a business account with Santander)

 

At first Santander were great.  Switching from the RBS to Santander was really simple; everything from my salary payments through to various direct debits, were seamlessly transferred very quickly.  IIRC, they took around a week  to sort everything out.  I think they gave us around £100 to switch to them too, which was a useful bonus.  All was fine, we had zero problems with Santander, excellent customer service, etc, until we came to start our self build.

 

I went into the local branch and met the mortgage adviser.  We had no mortgage on our old house, so I wanted to borrow around 1/3rd of the value of that house as additional funding for our self build.  After going through a half hour or so of questions, I received a firm mortgage offer, and paid them the arrangement fee, fee for the mortgage valuation etc, all of which went OK.  We received a formal offer of mortgage, and as soon as I had that I signed the contract with our frame supplier.

 

A few weeks later, when I had to pay the first stage payment, I went into the bank and requested draw down of our approved mortgage, only to be told that the bank had changed its lending criteria, and had now cancelled our mortgage offer (I'm still battling with them for a refund of our arrangement fee etc).  Needless to say, our stress levels went through the roof.  We ended up paying through the nose, via Build store, to arrange another mortgage with the Leeds.  The killer was the massive fees that Buildstore charge, which are simply outrageous, but we had no real choice.

 

So, would I ever bank with Santander again?  Not a hope in hell.  They still owe us around £500, have never even given us the slightest apology for their appalling behaviour, and I suspect we'll end up writing off our loss.  The only satisfaction we have had is finding out that the mortgage advisor we used was sacked shortly afterwards, allegedly for miss-selling.

[newhome]

17 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

So, does that mean I have to fork out a few hundred quid for a wifi enabled smartphone,

 

Doubt it would be that expensive if you wanted one. You can pick up uber cheap ones now, and second hand even less.