CDM - who's checking?

[laurenco]

I'm having an MBC slab and frame, then subbies thereafter. Most of the time there'll be one contractor on site at any time. To fulfil CDM (from another thread), I've made a list of forms to fill out,  H&S signs to erect, as well as: plasters, fire extinguishers and eyewash stations. But I have the following questions:

 

1. Unless an accident happens on site, do H&S ask to see any of the actual documentation? (does it need to be submitted anywhere or just held on file)

 

2. As a Chartered Surveyor I am expected to know every trade and will I therefore be held to a higher standard than the expectations of a typical domestic self-builder? I am not a building surveyor, nor am I capable of building my own house myself!

[lizzie]

I just have a big first aid kit, bought on line from safety sign suppliers. No eye wash stations or fire extinguishers. Got all the safety signs up along with CCTV and keep out etc signs.

 

Ours  was MBC slab and frame and subbies.

 

As far as I recall the people who we asked for H&S stuff were  giving the RAMS for us to provide to the outside agencies - water, gas etc.  I think MBC had some specific requirements of us and provided their RAMS to us as well.

 

Took me a while to work out RAMS = Risk assessment etc.......one groundwork contractor put his RAMS in for onward transmission to some provider -  when we looked later his RAMS related to a drive through burger car park.  I don't think anyone ever noticed, its a tick box exercise....unless of course it goes wrong.  People like brickies, plasterers, carpenters and electricians and plumbers ...all the important bods  on site....never seen any RAMS from them nor given them any instructions beyond basic 'joining' info e.g. first aid kit in garage etc

 

I was going to do my own but ended up not, it was given to someone else to use as a starter in setting up a new business and so heavily discounted rate, my time more valuable elsewhere.  I think in the end it is just a paper shuffling exercise like so many of these things.  If you are good at organising you should be OK. Lots of signs and safety notices makes it look good on site. I would do a pre printed sheet to hand out to newbies and put it up in your site office...location of first aid kit, nearest hospital, fire station etc.

 

Most of these consultants charge a fortune to people who are time poor on their self builds.   A whole industry has sprung up around regulations. 

 

One thing for sure is if its not in order your insurance will be void in the event of anything happening.

 

I don't know if the file for a site has to be given to anyone but I think it can be requested at any time so needs to be done and available. There are some very experienced people on here who will be able to tell you whats what.  

 

 

 

 

[Mr Punter]

All you need for HSE is an F10 form completed, with a copy on display in the site office, as well as a copy of your Insurance and the HSE poster.  It is unlikely that they will visit unless there is a notifiable accident on site or someone reports obviously dangerous working.

 

As a minimum, get workers to supply risk assessments / method statements - especially if they are higher risk.  Also get copies of insurances and evidence that they have attended H & S training.  Also get them to sign in.  Give a site induction to all new starters and get them to sign that they received it.

[MikeSharp01]

4 hours ago, laurenco said:

2. As a Chartered Surveyor I am expected to know every trade and will I therefore be held to a higher standard than the expectations of a typical domestic self-builder? I am not a building surveyor, nor am I capable of building my own house myself!

Not by HSE you won't - they will throw exactly the same book at you as anybody else (I would have thought as ignorance is no defence), but your charter organisation might, just might, take a dim view if something goes wrong particularly if you are using your professional insurance to cover aspects of your work on it.

[nod]

46 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Not by HSE you won't - they will throw exactly the same book at you as anybody else (I would have thought as ignorance is no defence), but your charter organisation might, just might, take a dim view if something goes wrong particularly if you are using your professional insurance to cover aspects of your work on it.

HSE can walk on at anytime

But the reality is if you are off the beaten track You will only see HSE if something bad happens

 

I was tempted to buy scaffold like many on here and simply sell it on 

when I had finished with it 

A friend who owns a small scaffold company advised me that I would get a visit As I’m across from a new development 

So I got his lads to scaf the whole house

Hi 

[mvincentd]

HSE can walk on at any time.....and on most sites can probably find a technicality on which to at least issue a caution (regardless of how much effort has gone into conforming to H&S), which will be a billable action.

 The random visit I had resulted in my being pulled up for not providing hot running water for workers.... had the inspectors mood been different he could easily have shut me down for risk of falls from height.( I’m the principle contractor).

  So long as it’s a random visit rather than one prompted by an incident i’d suggest to think of it as like a mafia protection racket.....it’ll cost you, but in a vaguely affordable way.

 

  The whole HSE thing can tie you up in knots  so before you bother with any of it i would suggest you establish and understand what your actual status (in the eyes of HSE) is for the purposes of your role in your project.  That will then inform what responsibilities fall to you. 

[Triassic]

7 hours ago, mvincentd said:

The whole HSE thing can tie you up in knots  so before you bother with any of it i would suggest you establish and understand what your actual status (in the eyes of HSE) is for the purposes of your role in your project.  That will then inform what responsibilities fall to you. 

Didn’t someone produce a checklist of what’s needed to comply?

[StructuralEngineer]

1 hour ago, Triassic said:

Didn’t someone produce a checklist of what’s needed to comply?

There's a free PDF document of the HSE's guidance to clients, designers, contractors -- maybe you were thinking of this one?: http://bit.ly/CDM2015_guidance

 

The one I tend to send to new contractors or clients is the easier to digest "A short guide for clients on the Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 2015": http://bit.ly/CDM_short_guide

 

@laurenco I would be careful to check what roles you are expected to carry out, as you might find yourself responsible as Client, Principal Contractor, and Principal Designer all in one!

[Redoctober]

Or this might help -

HSE guidance.pdf

[epsilonGreedy]

22 minutes ago, StructuralEngineer said:

The one I tend to send to new contractors or clients is the easier to digest "A short guide for clients on the Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 2015": http://bit.ly/CDM_short_guide

 

 

This is surprisingly succinct for a public sector publication.

 

With regard to the definition of a "Domestic Client" is says...

 

Quote

If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member, and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client.

 

If I live in rented accommodation elsewhere but have title to the new build plot and intend this property to become my only home, does the new build site become my "own home" from the moment a JCB digs the first foundation trench?

Edited March 28, 2018 by epsilonGreedy

[vivienz]

There was an extensive and involved thread on this last year:

 

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/2376-principal-designer-role/

 

And a good summary of the thread by @recoveringacademic, here:

 

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/2514-cdm-2015-and-the-domestic-client/

Edited March 28, 2018 by vivienz