Appealing Council Tax Banding - or should that be unappealing!

[NSS]

Postman Pat delivered a letter from the VAO today and to my utter bemusement they've placed our modest 3-bed chalet bungalow in the same band as the significantly larger 5-bed (less than 100m away) that we used to live in.

 

I've already begun collating evidence of the (lower) banding of several nearby properties of similar size/configuration, but does anyone have any tips on how to go about appealing as I understand the VAO are rarely persuaded to amend these decisions. 

[ProDave]

There is a set time for an appeal. Make it known immediately you wish to do so and ask for the application form.

 

Your task then is to find as many properties similar to and close to yours that are in a lower band, estate agent websites are your key here.  Meanwhile they will try to find as many as they can in the same or a higher band.

 

As far as I could tell the appeal process would be both you, and the council valuation officer, would get a set period of time to stand up in front of a panel to explain why you thing the valuation should be altered.  I was prepared for that with all my documentation, but the day before the hearing the valuation officer said he would reduce it 1 band if I withdrew my appeal.  I still wonder if I should have taken it to the appeal as I was seeking a reduction of 2 bands.......

[ragg987]

I made a successful appeal, they put our build into Band H and I challenged and got it reduced to G. This was based on our planning drawings that (I assume) the council planning had forwarded to them.

 

The key is that valuation bands are based on a notional value at a key date. For England that date is April 1991. So you need a time machine for a house built now. The 3 sources of information I used were:

 

VOA for actual banding of local houses http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp

Zoopla for current house pricing

Nationwide House price calculator for the time machine https://www.nationwide.co.uk/about/house-price-index/house-price-calculator

 

Plug your new build house value into nationwide to get the price at the key date. You have your banding, if it is clear-cut and in the middle of a band you may be fine, but I took a belt-and-braces approach and looked at a range of house in our area (using VOA band+1, band, band-1) then checked last sale price or current valuation on zoopla and hence checked the price using the time-machine.

 

Tabulate all this evidence and submit to VOA via their website. About 5 or 6 weeks later I got a nice letter agreeing with an apology for getting it wrong, followed about a month (might have been longer) later by an adjusted council tax bill.

 

I was lucky that zoopla had calculated the valuation of our new build. I suspect this was because I used my zoopla account to update the information about the new property prior to this event. You may be able to use a valuation from an estate agent - ours provided one for free, I think that is commonplace.

[Gone West]

We went through this when I inherited the bungalow we are currently living in. Apparently when a property changes hands the council can ask the VOA to change the banding which is what happened to us. We challenged it and the VOA didn't accept what we said so it was to go to tribunal. We had to put together all the evidence we could and a time was set for the hearing. The VOA backed down a few days before the hearing and we had the banding reduced. This was about ten years ago and was in England.

Edited February 19, 2018 by PeterStarck

[ragg987]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

As far as I could tell the appeal process would be both you, and the council valuation officer, would get a set period of time to stand up in front of a panel to explain why you thing the valuation should be altered

Maybe different in Scotland? I just submitted on the website and there was no discussion or panel. England.

[Gone West]

This might help.

 

https://www.valuationtribunal.gov.uk/forms/appeal-forms/council-tax-banding/

[NSS]

Okay, thanks all, encouraged that some of you have had success. Let battle commence!

[nod]

1 hour ago, NSS said:

Postman Pat delivered a letter from the VAO today and to my utter bemusement they've placed our modest 3-bed chalet bungalow in the same band as the significantly larger 5-bed (less than 100m away) that we used to live in.

 

I've already begun collating evidence of the (lower) banding of several nearby properties of similar size/configuration, but does anyone have any tips on how to go about appealing as I understand the VAO are rarely persuaded to amend these decisions. 

Good luck 

I’ve spent the last three weeks trying to convince them that the house isn’t habitable 

No mains supply yet

But there inspector has banded us F

Ive sent these upto date pictures 

But they are still not convinced

[Stones]

 My father used to chair a local valuations appeal committee. He was very clear, current house prices and working backwards to get the notional value in 1991 would not be accepted as evidence.  It may well give you a starter for ten, but the only way to get useable evidence to convince the committee is to identify houses in the valuation area, preferably as close as possible to your own house, that are directly comparable in terms of size and accommodation. They assess the ground floor size from the external footprint rather than internal. Remember that the thicker walls many people  now build due to insulation will add notional floorspace and therefore value compared to a 1991 build with a slimmer wall construction, so its not unreasonable to make that adjustment when comparing.

Also bear in mind the assessors do not want to lose an appeal (as it would be a negative KPI) so if you have good evidence they would likely settle on a reduced banding. If however you have no evidence and just feel it's too high, they will let the appeal be heard as they know without credible evidence the appeal committee would have no option but to side with the assessor, who will present stacks of evidence.

[PeterW]

Out of interest is the rule still there about rooms below a certain height are counted as reduced footprint..? Doesn't it also remove internal garages too..? We have circa 168sqm, but 18sqm of that is garage and 30sqm is less than 1.2m ceiling height.

[NSS]

@nod that's bizarre!

[NSS]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

 My father used to chair a local valuations appeal committee. He was very clear, current house prices and working backwards to get the notional value in 1991 would not be accepted as evidence.  It may well give you a starter for ten, but the only way to get useable evidence to convince the committee is to identify houses in the valuation area, preferably as close as possible to your own house, that are directly comparable in terms of size and accommodation. They assess the ground floor size from the external footprint rather than internal. Remember that the thicker walls many people  now build due to insulation will add notional floorspace and therefore value compared to a 1991 build with a slimmer wall construction, so its not unreasonable to make that adjustment when comparing.

Also bear in mind the assessors do not want to lose an appeal (as it would be a negative KPI) so if you have good evidence they would likely settle on a reduced banding. If however you have no evidence and just feel it's too high, they will let the appeal be heard as they know without credible evidence the appeal committee would have no option but to side with the assessor, who will present stacks of evidence.

@Stones very useful, cheers 

[hmpmarketing]

Hopefully not off-topic, but I have been in property 7 months now and so far no one came to supposedly measure property to place it on a tax band, is it normal to take this long? Council did write a long time ago confirming completion but so far no one around yet and no council tax!

[Jeremy Harris]

9 hours ago, hmpmarketing said:

Hopefully not off-topic, but I have been in property 7 months now and so far no one came to supposedly measure property to place it on a tax band, is it normal to take this long? Council did write a long time ago confirming completion but so far no one around yet and no council tax!

 

Someone has to ask the VOA to make a valuation and place the house on the council tax register.  Building control won't do this when they issue a completion certificate, as they are semi-independent from the council.  Often the council tax people at the council will be regularly checking for new properties and keen to get them paying the tax as possible, but it seems that in your case they haven't.

 

I would make an application the the VOA for your house to be valued and put on the register ASAP.  The council are bound to backdate the tax payable to when they think the house was habitable, and that may well be a date a fair bit earlier than the completion date.  You can make a case for the band you think the house should be in, and I think it's worth doing.  I applied to the VOA in this way and sent them evidence, in the form of drawings, showing that our house had very thick walls (the point that @Stones has made above, they reduce the internal floor area) and that the first floor was significantly smaller than the ground floor, as those rooms are in the roof.  I also highlighted that the house only had heating on the ground floor (part of the original rating valuation process included noting whether a house had full central heating or not!).  There's also a suggestion box on the form for you to say what band you think the house should be in.  I put in a band one lower than the one I thought it should be, they put it in the band I really thought it should be in, and wrote to me saying that they had noted my recommendation for the band but they assessment was that it should be in the band above.  Worth trying it on, though!

[hmpmarketing]

7 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Someone has to ask the VOA to make a valuation and place the house on the council tax register.  Building control won't do this when they issue a completion certificate, as they are semi-independent from the council.  Often the council tax people at the council will be regularly checking for new properties and keen to get them paying the tax as possible, but it seems that in your case they haven't.

 

I would make an application the the VOA for your house to be valued and put on the register ASAP.  The council are bound to backdate the tax payable to when they think the house was habitable, and that may well be a date a fair bit earlier than the completion date.  You can make a case for the band you think the house should be in, and I think it's worth doing.  I applied to the VOA in this way and sent them evidence, in the form of drawings, showing that our house had very thick walls (the point that @Stones has made above, they reduce the internal floor area) and that the first floor was significantly smaller than the ground floor, as those rooms are in the roof.  I also highlighted that the house only had heating on the ground floor (part of the original rating valuation process included noting whether a house had full central heating or not!).  There's also a suggestion box on the form for you to say what band you think the house should be in.  I put in a band one lower than the one I thought it should be, they put it in the band I really thought it should be in, and wrote to me saying that they had noted my recommendation for the band but they assessment was that it should be in the band above.  Worth trying it on, though!

 

Thanks @JSHarris for the tips, hope this is also helpful in the context of this thread. FYI, I actually looked up my post code on the VOA site (http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp) and for some reason they still do not have the new address listed!

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by hmpmarketing

[Jeremy Harris]

17 minutes ago, hmpmarketing said:

 

Thanks @JSHarris for the tips, hope this is also helpful in the context of this thread. FYI, I actually looked up my post code on the VOA site (http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp) and for some reason they still do not have the new address listed!

 

 

To get the address listed you may have to apply to the council street naming team and pay a fee.  We had no choice but to do this, but others here have managed to avoid paying the fee and applied to get their address entered on the Royal Mail database.  If you are receiving mail OK, then I'd see what happens, rather than pay the fee to the council!

[hmpmarketing]

8 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

To get the address listed you may have to apply to the council street naming team and pay a fee.  We had no choice but to do this, but others here have managed to avoid paying the fee and applied to get their address entered on the Royal Mail database.  If you are receiving mail OK, then I'd see what happens, rather than pay the fee to the council!

 

It has been added ages ago, even on Royal Mail DB, forgot to mention it...but for some reason VOA does not have it listed  

Edited February 20, 2018 by hmpmarketing

[ProDave]

The VOA is much more pro active here. When we finally moved into the static caravan he revealed he had visited the site for a snoop around look 17 times.  I am willing to bet he is still snoping ready to pounce when he think the house is complete enough to be listed.

 

In our case he listed the caravan at the address "Caravan, house name, village name....." he said this is so when we move into the house, the caravan will be removed from the council tax list and the house name alone added to the list.

 

The house name thing I have mentioned before. I have refused to fill in the form and pay the extortionate fee of £150. Our house name is on the council's list now and there is no problem with utilities or getting post. The only thing "missing" is the council refuse to inform Royal Mail unless I pay the £150 fee, so it is not on the RM postcode database. So at the moment it's stalemate with me refusing to pay £150 just so the council can notify RM of one address already on it's own database. 

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, hmpmarketing said:

 

It has been added ages ago, even on Royal Mail DB, forgot to mention it...but for some reason VOA does not have it listed  

 

 

VOA use the council address list, I think, not the Royal Mail one, which may explain why it's not on their list. 

 

Apparently (according to our council) the sequence is that you ask the council for the address to be listed (and pay them a fat fee!), and they then get the address on both their list (which is used for things like emergency services access, amongst other things) and also they inform the Royal Mail.  You can apply to the Royal Mail directly (I did, it's quicker than waiting for the council), but that may not mean your house gets on to the council address database.  The whole thing is a bit of a shambles, and varies a great deal from one area to another.

[hmpmarketing]

Just now, JSHarris said:

 

 

VOA use the council address list, I think, not the Royal Mail one, which may explain why it's not on their list. 

 

Apparently (according to our council) the sequence is that you ask the council for the address to be listed (and pay them a fat fee!), and they then get the address on both their list (which is used for things like emergency services access, amongst other things) and also they inform the Royal Mail.  You can apply to the Royal Mail directly (I did, it's quicker than waiting for the council), but that may not mean your house gets on to the council address database.  The whole thing is a bit of a shambles, and varies a great deal from one area to another.

 

Yea, strange indeed. First step for me was to contact the council (all through email), pay £75 if I remember correctly to get the address listed. Once they confirmed the registration, I then contacted Royal Mail and they promptly added the address to their DB. Initially it is on a "stand by" list (forgot what it is called), and then once I contacted them, they moved it to the "live" list. Just cant understand why the council has not done anything and if what you mentioned is correct, they should have contacted the VOA long ago.

 

Wondering if I can get away with a few months "off"  

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, hmpmarketing said:

 

Yea, strange indeed. First step for me was to contact the council (all through email), pay £75 if I remember correctly to get the address listed. Once they confirmed the registration, I then contacted Royal Mail and they promptly added the address to their DB. Initially it is on a "stand by" list (forgot what it is called), and then once I contacted them, they moved it to the "live" list. Just cant understand why the council has not done anything and if what you mentioned is correct, they should have contacted the VOA long ago.

 

Wondering if I can get away with a few months "off"  

 

I doubt that you'll get a few months off!  They backdated our council tax by around 4 months, and agreed (after a bit of debate) to use our completion date as the date from which the tax became due.

[ProDave]

34 minutes ago, hmpmarketing said:

 

Yea, strange indeed. First step for me was to contact the council (all through email), pay £75 if I remember correctly to get the address listed. Once they confirmed the registration, I then contacted Royal Mail and they promptly added the address to their DB. Initially it is on a "stand by" list (forgot what it is called), and then once I contacted them, they moved it to the "live" list. Just cant understand why the council has not done anything and if what you mentioned is correct, they should have contacted the VOA long ago.

 

Wondering if I can get away with a few months "off"  

Can you tell me exactly HOW you contacted RM

 

I have tried 3 different methods and every time they say only the council can inform them of a new address.  I even tried arguing it is not "new" and has been in use for 2 years and they still said the council must inform them before they will add a new address to the postcode database.

[joe90]

Like peter above I challenged a council banding (about ten years ago)  and was set to go to appeal, the day before the council rang me to ask what evidence I had and I said “ why should I tell you?” He then admitted th council could not afford to go to appeal and wanted an agreement, so I told him my evidence and he agreed over the phone. Job done.

 

I am waiting for the council to ask for council tax on my current new build but on purpose I am not having the Sewerage treatment plant installed till the last minute so it’s “ not fit for purpose “ 

[lizzie]

Can you tell me exactly HOW you contacted RM

 

I have tried 3 different methods and every time they say only the council can inform them of a new address.  I even tried arguing it is not "new" and has been in use for 2 years and they still said the council must inform them before they will add a new address to the postcode database.

 

@ProDaveAt hole in the ground stage we wrote in to the GIS officer at the local council asking approval for our proposed house name (we dont have a number) and he approved and gave us the street address agreed it with RM and registered it with RM - the address we got is slightly different to the actual on the ground address as RM do not put in private roads only the main road which our private road runs off. Its no matter we got an approved address and postcode and council registered it with RM, easy and no fee.. No other way to do it RM will not register from you only from council.  Your local council should have a street naming policy that covers it. Thats in England, may be different in Scotland.

Edited February 20, 2018 by lizzie
add quote

[hmpmarketing]

25 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Can you tell me exactly HOW you contacted RM

 

I have tried 3 different methods and every time they say only the council can inform them of a new address.  I even tried arguing it is not "new" and has been in use for 2 years and they still said the council must inform them before they will add a new address to the postcode database.

 

Hi @ProDave I did leave it this on a thread some time ago, here it is: 

 

Perhaps you can try calling them directly and bypass the LA?

Edited February 20, 2018 by hmpmarketing