Loft hatch or no loft hatch

[Selfbuildsarah]

Can we opt for no loft hatch? Foolish? Building regs? MBC have advised against it in the fink trusses as loose cellulose is blown over the ceiling chord. Any advice welcome. Thanks

[Mr Punter]

If you will never need access, I don't see why it would matter.  How does the cellulose stay put when it is installed?

[Redbeard]

Do you really need access? What is there to access? Wiring? Plumbing? Ductwork? I am guessing none of the above, so that leaves 'the void'. Project yourself forwards 10, 20 or 30 years and think if the necessity will ever crop up. If you think it won't, don't have a hatch. Worst case scenario is that years hence you have to cut the plasterboard and get deluged with Warmcel. Not the worst deluge in the world.

[JohnMo]

I would have one, get an insulated and air tight one, with ladder - make a raised landing area above the level of the loose insulation and maybe a central pathway.  You can never have enough storage space!

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

You can never have enough storage space!

Where else do Christmas decorations go? 

It really depends on your storage requirements and opportunities.

 

For the cost of the ladder and a few boards you remove the stuff from a more valuable space. £/m2 is very good.

However well you do it, with seals and insulation, there will be some heat loss.

 

If you do go for one, then I recommend a permanent  ladder, either sliding or scissoring down, rather than a stepladder or standard one.  Much safer.

[Russdl]

Is it too late to incorporate it in to the thermal envelope and make it a proper useable loft?
 

Ours is (MBC).  Proper staircase going up to it, carpets etc.

 

It is the loft, no windows but most definitely the loft but also a very useable part of the house and that’s where the Christmas decorations are. Along with lots of other stuff. 
 

It meant we had to have FD30 internal doors but it was worth that. 

[ProDave]

I would definitely have  loft hatch.  Exposed blown celulose is surely no worse than lofts of old filled with loose lay vermiculite?  Span over the loose lay stuff with some boards for access and storage, if necessary up on loft legs.

 

I hate not having access to a hidden void.  In our last house I had a hatch in the floor to access the under floor void.  I avoided that in this house for the sake of air tightness, but still sometimes think it would be nice to see what is going on under there, even though there are deliberately no services there.

 

Of course if you think about it from the start at design stage, then a warm roof design with the insulation and air tightness following the roof line is best.  Your loft space is then warm and dry and no issues with needing a sealed loft hatch or any downlights etc that might penetrate an air tight layer.

[MPx]

Totally agree with having a hatch.  Stuff happens.  You (or someone for you) will need to get up there at some point.  (eg maybe a repair or maybe vermin get into the roof void and spend the night scratching around).  Cutting a hole in the ceiling later at some random position not knowing what's above is much wore than doing it to a proper plan.  And if you never use it in your time...what's the cost been?  A couple of hundred now vs potentially much more once everywhere is properly "finished ".

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, MPx said:

Cutting a hole in the ceiling later at some random position not knowing what's above is much wore than doing it to a proper plan. 

Especially the prospect of doing that, KNOWING there is loose insulation above.

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Selfbuildsarah said:

MBC have advised against it in the fink trusses as loose cellulose is blown over the ceiling chord.

They've not blown cellulose over the Finks on the last two of their projects I worked on. All of the CAT6 network gear and TV runs, plus feeds for all the blinds etc went up there on the most recent, and we boarded it out so it could provide quite a bit of useful, additional storage.

[Nickfromwales]

Need to see a section drawing, then it'll make sense I guess.

[Roundtuit]

If you want to sell at some point, a surveyor might want to look up there.  I can't really envisage loft access not being a good idea.

[Iceverge]

I was dead set against it from an air tightness and hoarding point of view. I have never seen anything in an attic that didn't belong in a skip. 

 

I even found a timber box of gelignite explosive in my parents one from the 1950's. 

 

It's a place where people who can't organize their brains stick their crap. 

 

Rant over, I did include one, only for access to inspect. I might visit once a year to check the roof and to say hello to my insulation. 

 

Airtight(ish) + insulated(ish) attic hatch and 500mm OSB upstand to keep the cellulose in situ. 

 

I added 500mm of a PIR "plug" that fits into the OSB upstand box to keep in the heat. 

 

I reckon it comes with a U value of 0.05W/m²K.

 

No storage allowed thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Russdl]

3 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

 

I was dead set against it from an air tightness and hoarding point of view.

 

I was dead set against not making good use of the loft from a ‘wasting so much space’ point of view.  
 

Why go to so much effort to build a quality, individual house and then have a loft space that’s kind of part of the house and kind of not, and largely useless…

…until the next owner spends multi thousands doing a loft conversion and finally bringing the loft into the fold. 
 

15 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

 I have never seen anything in an attic that didn't belong in a skip. 

Christmas decorations (you may have a point).
Some gym equipment and a couple of SUP’s (you may have a point again).

 

Suitcases.
MVHR.

House battery.

Kids LEGO and train sets in storage for grandkids (I’m back in the lead). 

 

[Oz07]

I fitted a couple of these in my last place and still got great air test result so they must be good. 

https://www.jupiterblue.co.uk/loft-hatches-c2/standard-range-c9/airtight-loft-hatch-560-x-640mm-hinged-short-side-p221/s5093

In reality we never stored anything up there so very rarely opened them. The ariel was in the loft so handy to have and just for general inspection pov 

[Selfbuildsarah]

11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

They've not blown cellulose over the Finks on the last two of their projects I worked on. All of the CAT6 network gear and TV runs, plus feeds for all the blinds etc went up there on the most recent, and we boarded it out so it could provide quite a bit of useful, additional storage.

Do mean they didn’t choose the insulation package or MBC failed to supply what was paid for? We have paid a lot for the upgrade to 400mm cellulose. 

[Iceverge]

10 hours ago, Russdl said:

Why go to so much effort to build a quality, individual house and then have a loft space that’s kind of part of the house and kind of not, and largely useless…

 

Go the whole hog in that case. 

 

Take the insulation and airtightness line outside the attic space and a regulation staircase to access. 

 

Design dependant though it can be much much dearer. In our case making the footprint bigger or a garden shed was multiples of times cheaper. 

 

10 hours ago, Russdl said:

Suitcases.
MVHR.

House battery.

Kids LEGO and train sets in storage for grandkids (I’m back in the lead). 

 

Suitcases in the garden shed or be sensible and just take hand luggage.

 

MVHR should be inside the heated envelope, I've seen issues with vibration and noise when in the attic. Care is needed. Also you need to get at them to replace bearings and filters. 

 

House battery should be away from the house entirely in my view given the severity of Li cell thermal runaway.

 

Kids toys should be sold on eBay unless they're being used. I'd have loved a trainset as a lad but couldn't get any cheap as they were all hoarded in some geezers attic......

 

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, Iceverge said:

Go the whole hog in that case. 

 

Take the insulation and airtightness line outside the attic space and a regulation staircase to access. 

That’s my point. That’s what we did. 

[Iceverge]

3 hours ago, Russdl said:

That’s my point. That’s what we did. 

 

That's fair.