matt-shrops Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Good Afternoon Buildhub. After researching on EBuild and on now on here I thought it was about time I joined. I have planning permission to build a house for myself near Montgomery on the Shropshire/Powys Border. I aim to build to Passive standards- raft foundation, 300mm warmcell, and triple glazing. I have designed the house to face south with large windows passive gain. I have had a few quotes from timber framers, including MBC, but they all were too expensive. So I am going to have an oak frame built and then I will build a twin stud wall or IBeams to hold the insulation and windows. Thanks for all the amazingly interesting and helpful threads so far.... I am sure I will have many questions very soon. Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragg987 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Welcome and looking forward to more details. One aspect to think about (if not already done) is total cost - your approach may require more steps and / or materials to complete and what is the total cost compared to package timber framers? And impact to time to complete? Also make sure you understand the impact to hitting passiv standard if going your own route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hi and welcome. What cost comparison are you working to ? You need to be sure it's not more expensive to go 'bespoke' and that it'll achieve the same standard. Remember certain TF suppliers will guarantee a particular level of airtightness and that's not easy to do. If you get a mix of disconnected trades on site, continuity and attention to minute detail often slips, and it's the minute detail that will make or kill your target build quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hi and welcome. Which side of the border may determine which building regs you have to abide by. I would be surprised if an oak frame and then infil with I beams would be cheaper than an MBC build. Make sure you are really comparing like for like i.e. including all the wall structure, insulation, air tightness detail etc. Make sure lots of S facing glazing does not overheat the house in summer (the sun does occasionally shine in Wales) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hi Matt, welcome to the forum. Good luck with the project, sounds interesting and in a nice part of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 47 minutes ago, ProDave said: (the sun does occasionally shine in Wales) You had any snow today Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 hi @Matt i can't understand why you want an oak frame and then go with a jji wall, the jji wall is sufficient on its own and you save on the oak. just increase wall thickness to 350mm for a u value of 0.1w/m2, this is the way i'm going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-shrops Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Evening all. Thanks for your comments. I understand that I am potentialy doubling up by having an oak frame and then a stud wall. However the oak frame was was a very good price (built reasonably locally) and I have time at the moment to give to the stud wall. I have had a good quote for warm cell and will act as labourer to save a few more ££. The MBC frame quote has gone up by about £20k in about a year. Otherwise I might of gone that route. Understand it is the attention to detail that will determine the overall airtightness. However it is going to be my house so I am prepared to spend extra time on airtightness and details. I am just in Shropshire, so no sprinkler system required and CIL exempt which was remarkably easy to apply for. Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 You will have to use an air tight membrane inside to get decent air tightness, I can't see your wall panels fitted into an oak frame being very intrinsically air tight as it is. That will be several £00 for the membrane and a not inconsiderable amount of tape. Air tightness would come included with an MBC frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 /other timber frame companies are available, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 hours ago, dpmiller said: /other timber frame companies are available, also. Don't be shy of naming a couple especially if your happy with them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 10 hours ago, ProDave said: You will have to use an air tight membrane inside to get decent air tightness, I can't see your wall panels fitted into an oak frame being very intrinsically air tight as it is. That will be several £00 for the membrane and a not inconsiderable amount of tape. Air tightness would come included with an MBC frame. Out of curiosity, which other TF suppliers ( offering a turnkey slab / weathertight & guaranteed airtight shell ) are out there that have been used by members here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Out of curiosity, which other TF suppliers ( offering a turnkey slab / weathertight & guaranteed airtight shell ) are out there that have been used by members here? I can think of Beattie Passive and Touchwood for a start, we had discussions with both, and I am sure at least one person on her has used Touchwood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 We used Buildakit, company based in Nelson, Lancashire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 from my research, there are plenty of the NI based companies that are installing frame kits into the mainland UK here's a few to try, I've had discussions with most of them re. our project and their open panel kits were ALL cheaper than MBC like-for-like. Kilbroney Leadon Kudos McCavana QTF Unique TTFC They've all got slightly different offerings, from bare installed frame kits, through felting and battening/ supply of insulation/airtightness/PB/ windows/ MVHR, and or fitting of all the above too. None however offer a direct slab or passive slab option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, ProDave said: I can think of Beattie Passive and Touchwood for a start, we had discussions with both, and I am sure at least one person on her has used Touchwood. 14 minutes ago, dpmiller said: from my research, there are plenty of the NI based companies that are installing frame kits into the mainland UK here's a few to try, I've had discussions with most of them re. our project and their open panel kits were ALL cheaper than MBC like-for-like. Kilbroney Leadon Kudos McCavana QTF Unique TTFC They've all got slightly different offerings, from bare installed frame kits, through felting and battening/ supply of insulation/airtightness/PB/ windows/ MVHR, and or fitting of all the above too. None however offer a direct slab or passive slab option. Thanks both. Probably good to have a balanced overview to keep the thread healthy, and folk will then have sufficient information to 'shop around'. 14 minutes ago, dpmiller said: ......were ALL cheaper than MBC like-for-like. 14 minutes ago, dpmiller said: None however offer a direct slab or passive slab option None exactly like for like then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 no, for my spec (open panel, .15 walls, .11 ceiling, with AT kit) of all those that complied directly MBC was dearest by a sizeable chunk, like 20-30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 34 minutes ago, dpmiller said: no, for my spec (open panel, .15 walls, .11 ceiling, with AT kit) of all those that complied directly MBC was dearest by a sizeable chunk, like 20-30% Thanks for the added clarification ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Hello Matt, welcome. We have a closed panel timber frame I joist build from PYC in Welshpool. 300mm warmcell.They are not far from you. I had quotes from MBC & Touchwood and a couple of others. I think PYC were able to be more competitive because they are the UK distributors for Warmcell. They were not the cheapest quote we had but I was happy with what we were getting for the money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I forgot to add that our foundations were already in place. We were building using a different construction originally, but had to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-shrops Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) Moira- looking great! I have visited PYC including their new factory in Welshpool. Unfortunately their quote was the most expensive. @ProDave- sorry I did not explain properly- my stud wall will go to the outside of the oak frame, essentially a separate structure (but will be tied in). I am looking at smartply passive OSB or a similar product for the internal air barrier. MBC quote was a competitive quote from the ones I had but still expensive and did not include the slab (20k). Matt Edited January 25, 2018 by Nickfromwales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-shrops Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Moira- Good looking windows- who did you use? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumbersmateuk Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, matt-shrops said: Moira- Good looking windows- who did you use? Cheers Yep I agree and if mine gets out of the ground that's what I wll be needing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 36 minutes ago, matt-shrops said: I am looking at smartply passive OSB or a similar product for the internal air barrier. Matt 1 put the airtight envelope outside, run services between studs and oak, saves on membrane and tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 @matt-shrops@PlumbersmateukI have ideal combi windows & doors. Alu clad timber, all triple glazed. Cost about £12k. 6m glazing at the rear with 2 fixed panels & 2 centrally opening sliders with a solar protection coating. 2 fixed panels on the dormer with a centre sliding panel. 3/4 glazed back door. Fully glazed front door with 2 fixed side lights. 2 1800w x 600h top hung windows & 2 smaller top hung windows. They look great & really smooth operation of the sliders. I am so pleased with the windows themselves but had a disaster on the initial installation. A complete bodge job. I had to have them all removed & installed properly by another firm. Ideal combi were really helpful & the firm they recommended have done a great job. Even though the installation is not completely finished the windows have been totally watertight. I had expected with all the wind & driving rain some water may have got in but happily no problems at all & we are elevated & quite exposed. I spent about 18 months finalising the glazing & had quotes from rationel, internorm, velfac, Olsen UK, Munster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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