Which MVHR

[graeme m]

Any advice on which is the best?

[le-cerveau]

The range is mind boggling depending on your requirements.  What are you flow requirements, what additional features do you require, more info required before people can give reasonable responses.

[ragg987]

Based on brand / reputation, Paul units are near the front (as I understand it). Quite a lot more expensive than some of the others. We ended up with an Airflow unit - built like a tank, so far so good (1.5 years in).

 

But as per @le-cerveau, "the best" will depend on your needs and budget.

[Visti]

You can start by calculating the minimum requirements based on your # of rooms using the Building Regs part F. You can see my own calcs doing just so here:

 

As you can see from the quotes we got back, the unit spec and cost varied quite a bit for the same plans... it then becomes more of a factor of what package you'd prefer.

[graeme m]

This is pretty much it. Ground floor plan, 1st is one room, living, kitchen and 9m2 terrace. We might want to including a heating element but it's a small house. 110m in total including the terrace. Usually only two of us but when our sons come home 4 in total. There's only three bedrooms and one of those will be an office. Possibly a sofa bed in lounge too.

 

MVHR routes.pdf

Edited January 4, 2018 by graeme m

[sloco]

We built 9yrs ago and fitted a ventaxia which became very noisy over the course of about 5yrs. Replaced it with Paul unit which was great. Green Building Store were very good on sizing and commissioning.I did the connections and insulation. Easy with the parts they supplied. Beware filter are expensive @ ~£10 each 2-3 times a year (2 req'd) 

[graeme m]

On 04/01/2018 at 13:11, le-cerveau said:

The range is mind boggling depending on your requirements.  What are you flow requirements, what additional features do you require, more info required before people can give reasonable responses.

Please see me response.

 

[le-cerveau]

Some general calculations based on what you have provided:

• Occupancy requirements 21l/s (3 bed)
• Area requirement 30.3 l/s (101m² (110 - terrace)
• Extract requirement (37 l/s) (Kitchen, 2 bath & utility?)

So you need a unit that can do 30.3 l/s (109.08 m³/h) continuously and boost to 37 l/s (133.2 m³/h).

The standard advice is to oversize to reduce fan speed (noise) and improve efficiency (% heat recovery).  You need one that does at least 150 m³/h, but I would recommend 180-200 m³/h.  At this size you can get units that fit in the overhead (200mm deep).

I would also consider can you get the unit under the stairs, a more central location, shorter dect runs.

At the size you are looking at every manufacture has a suitable version, some with distribution boxes attached direct to the units (Brink Sky units to name one), so it will probably depend on your overall system, as I would get the whole thing from one supplier unit and ductwork.

With a total of 5 supply and 4 extract ducts, the unit will probably be the most expensive bit (mine was opposite 400m+ of ductwork).

I would have a system with automatic summer bypass.

Post heater, see @JSHarris blog about air heating (not considered the best as it heats the wrong rooms, you want the wet rooms warmer), personally I would heat the rooms as required and just use the MVHR as heat recovery (loss limitation) and ventilation.

 

There are others here with units in your range and can give personal recommendations, I have 2 x Brink Renovent 400 plus units (the other end of the spectrum).

[graeme m]

5 minutes ago, le-cerveau said:

Some general calculations based on what you have provided:

• Occupancy requirements 21l/s (3 bed)
• Area requirement 30.3 l/s (101m² (110 - terrace)
• Extract requirement (37 l/s) (Kitchen, 2 bath & utility?)

So you need a unit that can do 30.3 l/s (109.08 m³/h) continuously and boost to 37 l/s (133.2 m³/h).

The standard advice is to oversize to reduce fan speed (noise) and improve efficiency (% heat recovery).  You need one that does at least 150 m³/h, but I would recommend 180-200 m³/h.  At this size you can get units that fit in the overhead (200mm deep).

I would also consider can you get the unit under the stairs, a more central location, shorter dect runs.

At the size you are looking at every manufacture has a suitable version, some with distribution boxes attached direct to the units (Brink Sky units to name one), so it will probably depend on your overall system, as I would get the whole thing from one supplier unit and ductwork.

With a total of 5 supply and 4 extract ducts, the unit will probably be the most expensive bit (mine was opposite 400m+ of ductwork).

I would have a system with automatic summer bypass.

Post heater, see @JSHarris blog about air heating (not considered the best as it heats the wrong rooms, you want the wet rooms warmer), personally I would heat the rooms as required and just use the MVHR as heat recovery (loss limitation) and ventilation.

 

There are others here with units in your range and can give personal recommendations, I have 2 x Brink Renovent 400 plus units (the other end of the spectrum).

Thanks for that. I was thinking oil filled electric rads in the bathrooms or that norwegian underfloor heating. 

 

[le-cerveau]

@graeme m Personally I would go for UFH every time, I currently live in a house with UFH in the bathrooms It make a huge difference.

[graeme m]

I've had it in my last two houses, plumbed. Not sure it's the best option in thisnew build though. We are planning to leave wiring points in all rooms if it proves we need to add the Norwegian UFH.

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by graeme m

[PeterW]

39 minutes ago, graeme m said:

Norwegian UFH.

 

..?? New one to me - got any info ..?

[graeme m]

13 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

..?? New one to me - got any info ..?

http://www.epwarmfloorltd.com/

 

[PeterW]

25 minutes ago, graeme m said:

http://www.epwarmfloorltd.com/

 

 

Thats just carbon film electric underfloor heating - no different to any of the systems that are used under laminate flooring. Be aware it can only be used under certain floor types too. 

 

For about a third of the cost you can fit standard under tile electric UFH at the outset and if you don’t want to use it, just switch it off ... 

[Russdl]

Sorry, thread creep...

 

I'd seen that 'warmfloor' before (probably from a post on Buildhub but I don't recall) and am seriously considering it as an alternative to wet UFH.

 

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

Thats just carbon film electric underfloor heating - no different to any of the systems that are used under laminate flooring.

 

From what I read about it, it does seem different from the 'normal' electric systems - have I just been bamboozled?

[PeterW]

6 hours ago, Russdl said:

Sorry, thread creep...

 

I'd seen that 'warmfloor' before (probably from a post on Buildhub but I don't recall) and am seriously considering it as an alternative to wet UFH.

 

 

From what I read about it, it does seem different from the 'normal' electric systems - have I just been bamboozled?

 

Its got two things different - uses a transformer to get to 24Vdc to power it, and it uses thin carbon film set into a plastic membrane instead of carbon wrapping of a set of cores.

 

What it does mean is that its much thinner than a normal build up however it is limited to what it can be used under. You can use it under tile effect laminate, but not tiles from memory as you can't bond it down. 

 

Other than that its just the same as any other electric underfloor heating - its a big resistor !

[Alasdair]

Just dragging topic back on topic...I ma new on here and just looking to get my MVHR ducting and unit installed before I start insulation and the plastering. I got some drawings done by nuair but there unit and ducting seems very dear...is it that good or are there better suggestions out there please?

 

[ragg987]

Talk to BPC. Great prices and they offer units from a few suppliers, they will also size and provide layouts for you.

 

I talked to a few manufacturers prior to discovering BPC (a recommendation from either this forum or ebuild) - that was a complete waste of my time.

[le-cerveau]

Got mine from CVC, though I get stuff that isn't shown on the website Ubbink ducting.

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

I am trying to sort out an MVHR at the moment.

I had a quote a long time ago from Nuaire & also Systemair.

Both seemed expensive.

I have just had a quote from CVC for a Renovent Excellent 180 , but again a lot of money.

BPC have quoted for an Xpelair that I am quite keen on.

It is the installation cost that is a problem for me at £1800-1900 from any supplier.
I am also in a quandary because both of latest quotes have an installation plan & they are very different.

Not sure which is best.

The CVC has the intake & exhaust next to each other.

I thought they had to be about 1.5m apart.

I would be really grateful for any thoughts.

I have attached both plans.

Thanks

Moira

NIEDZWIECKA_MOIRA_MVHR+INST-RE180-AE48-REVA.pdf

HRVMN130717Q_MOIRA_REV04-A3_GF FF.pdf

[le-cerveau]

First question is how self build is this, I installed mine myself (with support) (see my blog), the Ubbink gear is relatively easy to work with.

The instillation plan is their best guess, if you know what you want design it yourself, it is not that complicated and you know your house better that they do from plans.

Intake and exhaust officially should be 300mm apart, I put mine 3m apart.

The CVC system is just an indication, it does not include actual duct-run design (in the notes) you pay for that.

The BPC one appears to show duct runs however they have an extra run (colour extract, labeled supply) not in the calculations, so it needs checking.  Upstairs bed supplies appear to be near the door, should be much further away.

I would go back to both with questions:

CVC: intake and exhaust proximity.

BPC: supply terminal locations in bedrooms, Red duct going to above, ending in gallery, not in calculations.

There is a certain amount of throwing something out and get response, any more effort costs time and money and they want a commitment.

I can't remember accurately and I no longer have the quotes (easily to hand) but I think my installation costs were in the same region for 2 large units 400m of ducting and around 30 terminals so I suspect there is some negotiation there, this is such a small install (relatively) I shouldn't cost that much.

Once you start playing yourself you see so many other options and can save a fortune on instillation

[le-cerveau]

For the CVC system, what I can see i think is the UB206 manifold: http://www.ubbink.com/getmedia/ea917989-3cc9-42bf-8faa-7313b2a5fac4/AE_Dbox_UB_206_INT-EN.pdf.aspx?ext=.pdf

and AE48C ductwork, http://www.ubbink.com/getmedia/7679adc1-08f9-4bc6-a9fa-89cec8f66232/Ubbink_Air-Excellent_single.pdf.aspx?ext=.pdf.

Check the www.ubbink.com website, far more info the www.ubbink.co.uk

 

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@le-cerveau Thank you for your reply.

It is just me by myself.

I will go back & question BPC a bit more.

They are my preferred option.

I will ask them to put me in touch with an installer.

Does anyone have any other ideas for a supply & fit?

 

 

[IanR]

I went to Airflow. They supply only, via distributors, so you'd have to self-install or find your own installer.

 

They were cost effective for me, but I used a small commercial unit instead of two large domestic units, so don't know how their domestic units compete.

 

They offer a free design service which is very comprehensive. Although do charge for future changes if you start changing your requirements, and no commitment is necessary. From the systems design, they provide a full Bill of Materials and a target RRP that you should be able to do better than from their distributors.

[lizzie]

Hi Moira

 

we had our MVHR from Robbens. Its a German system and we chose that after getting quotes from all the usuals (including CVC who were v exo3naive). We really liked their product with the anti bacterial pipes and radial system it was exactly what I wanted plus they offer an upgrade on the vent covers I have gone for some swanky glass ones instead of usual white plastic/metal type.

 

But vents aside their system is top notch and their design service was excellent.

 

We used a recomended installer and also had him do the UFH manifolds (also from Robbens) as well as all our DHW and boiler design and install. He is brilliant. Is based in Shropshire and covers your area.

 

It you want any details on the contacts let me know.