Building Regs / Funding chicken and egg

[Incipiens Mox]

I'm hoping to begin a major build in around three months from now but am still waiting for initial building regs approval which is a precondition of the mortgage that I need.

 

The plans were rejected just before Christmas though the inspector commented that this was mainly because otherwise he would miss a deadline to respond back. However, he had raised around 36 issues that needed to be addressed. When I spoke to the structural engineer about this (who to be honest has been dragging his feet terribly and caused a lot of delay) he told me:

 

 final building reg approvals is normally achieved well into the contract as relies lots on sub contractors input

 

I can see where he's coming from but I can't start the build without some kind of approval as it'll hold up funding. 

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?

[PeterW]

Where are you building ..??

 

This sounds like a mix of Scottish regs and potentially a Local Authority BCO - did they put in writing about the rejection as that’s a good start to an appeal ..!

 

Get the list of 36 and put it on here - sounds like the SE talking rubbish ..!! 

[Incipiens Mox]

The build is actually in Hertfordshire. As far as I can gather, it's a question of the SE not providing enough information to the BCO despite having had months to do so. The SE is OK, but I've got frustrated with him recently and the lack of progress. He would have preferred me to go with a private BC contractor, but they were nearly three times the price and the builder is more than happy to deal with the LA and has a good relationship with the LA BCO. I think there's no love lost between the SE and the BCO.

I need to reach out directly to the BCO to find out what needs to be addressed before the start of the build and what can / must be addressed at each stage. 

 

Here's the list:

1. A site investigation report (including soil analysis) should be submitted for the site. This should include recommendations for dealing with any contaminants therein.
2. Please provide a SAP Carbon Dioxide emission calculation for the new dwelling to demonstrate that the predicted rate (DER) will not exceed the target emission rate (TER).
3. Proprietary details are required for: a) Basement waterproofing; b) Roof trusses, and c) Precast concrete floor beams.
4. Types, heights and proximity of trees and shrubs should be shown: minimum foundation depths should then be indicated, using an appropriate design guide (e.g. NHBC Standards Chapter 4.2 - Building Near Trees or the Zurich Building Guarantees Technical Manual). Provisions should be made for protection against possible heave of the subsoil.
5. Details are required of Means of Escape from rooms in basement.
6. Full foul and surface water drainage layouts / specification are required.
7. Clarify ventilation provision for "Boxroom".
8. The drawings show cavity wall construction while the specification notes refer to solid walls. Please clarify.
9. In order to avoid confusion, irrelevant specification notes should be deleted.
10. Full compliance should be shown with Approved Document M. This should address site topography, entry to the dwelling, door widths and bathroom access.
11. Suitable elevation drawings are required.
12. Suitable section drawings are required.
13. Suitable site / block plans are required, showing distances to proposed boundaries.
14. Please confirm that external doors and accessible windows will meet the security standards outlined in Approved Document Q e.g. tested and shown to meet BS publication PAS 24:2012.
15. An access point and internal network termination point (linked by a through-wall duct) should be provided for communication networks.
16. Suitable mains-powered and interlinked smoke detectors should be provided in the basement, hall and first floor landing.
17. Full details are required of chimneys, hearths flues etc.
18. Carbon Monoxide alarms should be provided in the rooms containing the solid fuel appliances.
19. Will the installation of solid fuel appliances be covered by an approved Competent Persons Scheme (e.g. HETAS)?
20. Durable notice plates should be provided in relation to the safe operation of new hearths or flues. Information on them should accord with Diagram 16 and clause 1.57 of Approved Document J and they should be sited next to the chimney, the electrical consumer unit or the water supply stop-cock.
21. Confirm that new windows will achieve a U-Value of not more than 1.6 W/m2K or a WER rating of band C, or better.
22. The specification refers to secondary glazing achieving a U-Value of 2.0 W/m2K – where is this?
23. Adequate mechanical ventilation is required in the Utility Room.
24. Full details and specification are required for the new stairway. These should include headroom and guarding.
25. Adequate structural calculations are required to justify the design details submitted.
26. Full details are required of roof construction, including provision for insulation and ventilation.
27. The opening between the garage and the house should be fitted with a self-closing FD30s door with minimum 100mm threshold.
28. All new habitable rooms at first floor level should be provided with a window that is suitable for emergency egress, having an unobstructed openable area that is at least 0.33m2 and 450mm in width and height. The bottom of the openable area should be no more than 1100mm above floor level.
29. The developer will need to organise for an air leakage test to be carried out on completion in order to justify assumptions made in the Carbon emissions calculation. A suitably qualified person i.e. a member of the Airtightness Testing and Measurement Association (ATTMA) must carry this out. For this reason, it is essential that the building be constructed using design details and building techniques that can be expected to achieve a minimum standard of air tightness. The TSO Robust Details document, 'Limiting Thermal Bridging and Air Leakage' gives guidance.
30. Details are required of the corner porch support for the Catnic lintels above.
31. The specification refers to 55 x 38mm timber studs at 600mm centres. These appear to conflict with what is shown on drawings and, in any case, would not be structurally adequate.
32. We will require the submission of a water efficiency calculation prior to issuing a completion certificate for the new dwelling. This should indicate the estimated consumption of wholesome water, showing that it will not exceed 125 litres/head/day.
33. Appropriate fittings are required to restrict the temperature of water supplied to the bath to 48oC.
34. A commissioning checklist (Benchmark Certificate) must be completed by the person or company installing the new boiler and a copy submitted to Building Control prior to completion. As well as health and safety, this should also deal with energy efficiency issues.
35. Regulation 25A requires notice to be given to the Local Authority not more than one day before commencement of work to confirm an analysis of the technical, environmental and economic feasibility of using high-efficiency alternative systems for the production of energy for use within the new building has been undertaken. Such an analysis should be documented, as a copy of this study may be requested for verification purposes during the course of the works. We recommend this analysis is undertaken in consultation with an energy assessor and that notice is deposited with the CO2 emission rate calculations required.
36. You should note that this is not necessarily an exhaustive list and that further items might come to light while checking the application.

[PeterW]

Sack the SE......

[le-cerveau]

Who prepared the Building Regs submission?  If it was the SE then I agree sack him as nearly all of this should have been included!

 

[Ferdinand]

I think most of this is basics covered by a set of boilerplate notes that exists on every architect's computer, with small variations.

[SteamyTea]

I know nothing about all this, but from a quick scan of the list, seems to me that you can do a lot of that work yourself, if you have time that is.

 

If you are not happy with your SE, then sack him, seems to me that he does not want your business and is waiting for you to make the move.

[jamiehamy]

9 hours ago, Incipiens Mox said:

 

Here's the list:

1. A site investigation report (including soil analysis) should be submitted for the site. This should include recommendations for dealing with any contaminants therein. Should be done in advance - you can commission this directly and save some grief. 
2. Please provide a SAP Carbon Dioxide emission calculation for the new dwelling to demonstrate that the predicted rate (DER) will not exceed the target emission rate (TER).I would expect the architect to provide proof of this - as @Ferdinandsaid, architect should have some canned text for this. 
3. Proprietary details are required for: a) Basement waterproofing; b) Roof trusses, and c) Precast concrete floor beams. A source of arguing between SE and Architect, both who will argue the other should provide. 
4. Types, heights and proximity of trees and shrubs should be shown: minimum foundation depths should then be indicated, using an appropriate design guide (e.g. NHBC Standards Chapter 4.2 - Building Near Trees or the Zurich Building Guarantees Technical Manual). Provisions should be made for protection against possible heave of the subsoil. Structural Engineer to provide as part of his/her BW submission. 
5. Details are required of Means of Escape from rooms in basement. Architect = on BW submission
6. Full foul and surface water drainage layouts / specification are required. Architect should provide some details but final design by SE> 
7. Clarify ventilation provision for "Boxroom". Architect (note). 
8. The drawings show cavity wall construction while the specification notes refer to solid walls. Please clarify. Architect
9. In order to avoid confusion, irrelevant specification notes should be deleted.
10. Full compliance should be shown with Approved Document M. This should address site topography, entry to the dwelling, door widths and bathroom access. Architect BW submission should cover. 
11. Suitable elevation drawings are required.Architect BW submission should cover. 
12. Suitable section drawings are required.Architect BW submission should cover. 
13. Suitable site / block plans are required, showing distances to proposed boundaries.Architect BW submission should cover. 
14. Please confirm that external doors and accessible windows will meet the security standards outlined in Approved Document Q e.g. tested and shown to meet BS publication PAS 24:2012. Architect BW submission should cover. 
15. An access point and internal network termination point (linked by a through-wall duct) should be provided for communication networks.Architect BW submission should cover. 
16. Suitable mains-powered and interlinked smoke detectors should be provided in the basement, hall and first floor landing.Architect BW submission should cover. 
17. Full details are required of chimneys, hearths flues etc.Architect BW submission should cover. 
18. Carbon Monoxide alarms should be provided in the rooms containing the solid fuel appliances.Architect BW submission should cover. 
19. Will the installation of solid fuel appliances be covered by an approved Competent Persons Scheme (e.g. HETAS)? Yes.  LATER
20. Durable notice plates should be provided in relation to the safe operation of new hearths or flues. Information on them should accord with Diagram 16 and clause 1.57 of Approved Document J and they should be sited next to the chimney, the electrical consumer unit or the water supply stop-cock. Standard fare when you buy a stove or install a fire to HETAS standard.  LATER
21. Confirm that new windows will achieve a U-Value of not more than 1.6 W/m2K or a WER rating of band C, or better. Architect BW submission should cover. 
22. The specification refers to secondary glazing achieving a U-Value of 2.0 W/m2K – where is this? Architect BW submission should cover. 
23. Adequate mechanical ventilation is required in the Utility Room.Architect BW submission should cover. 
24. Full details and specification are required for the new stairway. These should include headroom and guarding. SE should provide standard specification for this. 
25. Adequate structural calculations are required to justify the design details submitted. SE to provide
26. Full details are required of roof construction, including provision for insulation and ventilation. Architect BW submission should cover. 
27. The opening between the garage and the house should be fitted with a self-closing FD30s door with minimum 100mm threshold. Architect BW submission should cover. 
28. All new habitable rooms at first floor level should be provided with a window that is suitable for emergency egress, having an unobstructed openable area that is at least 0.33m2 and 450mm in width and height. The bottom of the openable area should be no more than 1100mm above floor level. Architect BW submission should cover. 
29. The developer will need to organise for an air leakage test to be carried out on completion in order to justify assumptions made in the Carbon emissions calculation. A suitably qualified person i.e. a member of the Airtightness Testing and Measurement Association (ATTMA) must carry this out. For this reason, it is essential that the building be constructed using design details and building techniques that can be expected to achieve a minimum standard of air tightness. The TSO Robust Details document, 'Limiting Thermal Bridging and Air Leakage' gives guidance. Yes, agreed - LATER
30. Details are required of the corner porch support for the Catnic lintels above. SE to provide 
31. The specification refers to 55 x 38mm timber studs at 600mm centres. These appear to conflict with what is shown on drawings and, in any case, would not be structurally adequate. SE to comment and update as required (I agree with comment)
32. We will require the submission of a water efficiency calculation prior to issuing a completion certificate for the new dwelling. This should indicate the estimated consumption of wholesome water, showing that it will not exceed 125 litres/head/day. Architect BW submission should cover. LATER
33. Appropriate fittings are required to restrict the temperature of water supplied to the bath to 48oC. Architect BW submission should cover.  (with appropriate comment in Specification)
34. A commissioning checklist (Benchmark Certificate) must be completed by the person or company installing the new boiler and a copy submitted to Building Control prior to completion. As well as health and safety, this should also deal with energy efficiency issues. Agree - LATER
35. Regulation 25A requires notice to be given to the Local Authority not more than one day before commencement of work to confirm an analysis of the technical, environmental and economic feasibility of using high-efficiency alternative systems for the production of energy for use within the new building has been undertaken. Such an analysis should be documented, as a copy of this study may be requested for verification purposes during the course of the works. We recommend this analysis is undertaken in consultation with an energy assessor and that notice is deposited with the CO2 emission rate calculations required. I wouldn't waste much time on this - do a simple two pager showing how bloody expensive they are and you're not doing it. 
36. You should note that this is not necessarily an exhaustive list and that further items might come to light while checking the application.Tell them you are treating it as exhaustive and if there are any further items that are conditional on the mortgage funds they should be highlighted no later than X date. What a nonsense to come up with this statement, 

 My thoughts on the above - not unreasonable list tbh and lots to be filled in by the architect - mainly by adding comments to drawings or the specification. 

 

REgarding "final building reg approvals is normally achieved well into the contract as relies lots on sub contractors input" - this is a bit of a red herring. You need to have your initial BW submission accepted by the BCO (for the mortgage and with amends as per above)- only once you have completed construction to you get a final signed off and habitation certificate. 

[MikeSharp01]

Not sure I quite get what item 35 is on about. I guess it must refer to any PV / Wind but might also refer to ASHP etc because none of them actually produce energy, conservation of energy law,

they mearly convert it from one form to another.

[ADLIan]

Item 35 is a requirement of the Regs but very rarely enforced. The actual wording is a bit vague - a full 20+ page report would look great but a simple, single paragraph statement has been accepted by BCOs. Perhaps keep statement short & simple and hope this satisfies BC.

 

[MikeSharp01]

Ok so now I get it: 

 

"A report should be produced to show whether any of the following could be included, while still being able to make the project cost effective, environmentally sound and technically feasible:

• Cogeneration (combined heat and power)
• District heating or cooling
• Heat Pumps
• Decentralised energy supply systems based on energy from renewable sources

The developer must give the building control body (BCB) a notice to confirm that it has been undertaken and well documented. Furthermore, there is no requirement to install these systems once the report has been completed, if the target emission rates can be achieved in another way."" Source: HERE as at 29.12.2017

Might be covered by boiler plate but needs to be done if BCO insists although unless you propose to build a power station burning rubbish you won't need to say much.

[Ferdinand]

I love that. "We do not judge that a district combined heat and power scheme is suitable for our single unit self-build" :-).

 

Gold Star to @jamiehamy for the point by point comment.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Incipiens Mox]

Many thanks for all the really useful feedback. Especially Jamie's point by point assessment. This is far more help than I've received from any of the professionals so far. 

 

One of the problems is perhaps that the original architect decided he didn't want to deal with it anymore. The job was dragging on and he was close to retirement. This happened just after PP was obtained and the SE was commissioned for the building regs drawings. The architect would not release the originals so he had to start from scratch.

 

That said I think that he could have answered most of the points assigned to the architect and to say that he's dragged his heels is an understatement.

 

I'm not quite at the point of sacking him but will be speaking to the builder, and a frank meeting of all parties seems on the cards. 

 

The main point is though that I need to address the points blocking initial approval so I can get on with the funding application. 

 

Thanks again. 

[curlewhouse]

I can only relate to our own case where our architect suggested an SE he'd worked with and he liaised with him for us - all the above was done without us having to chase anything, and as like Ferdinand says a lot of it was clearly boilerplate edited to meet each build anyway. Like you, no way would our lender have gone ahead without BR approval first (cant blame them of course, who would lend money for a house which might potentially not happen?) so what your SE is saying sounds nonsense to me. Maybe he's had clients with the cash where it did not matter, but you'd expect anyone to want to ensure they had BR approval anyway before starting to shell out.  Seems like you may be seeing a reason perhaps why your SE and the local BCO do not get on if this is what happens with stuff not properly submitted, making more time and work for everyone concerned.  Mind equally it's not very impressive if the inspector "rejects" things based on him just not getting on with them. If he's busy then that's tough, we all are, but we get our jobs done .

[Ferdinand]

Quickest way to make progress may be to go down the road to your closest architect or designer and hire him for half s day to sort out the boilerplate. That may address 80% of it.

 

Much is just variations of statements such as 'Utility room ventilation to comply with Building Regulations Section X Subsection Y Para Z".

 

These things just indicate compliance with the minimum, not precise specification. BCO will be interested in X doing the job according to regulation 23465, not that X is constructed of pre-pulverised trilithium which has survived being sat on by Donald Trump in a Gimp Suit .

 

It will say u-value of 0.2 (say - i.e. Meets Building Regs minimum) for a wall even if it is a Passive House with 6ft of sheeps' wool.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Ferdinand

[jpinthehouse]

Ask for a mortgage extension to be on the safe side, there normally ok with this.

Then continue with BR submission

[Incipiens Mox]

I just spoke to the building contractor to clarify why the SE hasn't attended to all these points. He believes that the SE is snowed under and has taken on too much work. That doesnt really explain everything or excuse his tardiness and lack of communication. 

 

Nevertheless, since he agreed to do it and I've already paid him for it. I will be pushing him hard to get this resolved within the next 2-3 weeks. If that's not possible then we'll be looking elsewhere.

 

Thanks again for all the helpful responses. By the way, what does BW stand for? 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Incipiens Mox

[Thedreamer]

We submitted our building warrant (BW) in early December, hopefully we don't get too many points back. I don't believe our building warrant is required to secure our self build mortgage, but we need our QS to sign off that the project is feasible within our price range. 

 

We used a local designer and structural engineer to provide structural drawings for the certificate of design. Most of the points discussed in the 36 above are included within our building warrant drawings so it would seem that either your SE or architect hasn't provided all of the necessary drawings and enough detail in the written specification.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Thedreamer

[jamiehamy]

So BW is your Building Warrant submission. In Scotland anyway, these are more detailed drawings than the plans, showing how each element will be built, and demonstrating how the house will be built to current standards. In our case, we had elevations, showing window openings, cladding, roof details etc. The floor plans showed layout, smoke alarms, door opening, stairs, kitchen layout, bathrooms, lighting plan, stop cocks, hot water, heating, ventilation amongst others. These were also accompanied by a Specification which provided written detail on various elements - walls, roof build up, heating spec, details on stairs, Handrails, insulation, and much more. 

 

The other set of documents are the engineer drawings to cover the structural elements, and drainage. 

 

As a package these are all submitted to Building Control (normally by the architect)  who will approve these as the house being built - or seek clarifications or changes if they are not satisfied the submission addresses the regulations. Once you have the BW approved, you can start building - to the design submitted. You can change elements, however will require an amendment to warrant later on - or a whole new submission if major changes.

 

The mortgage people seem pretty clued up hence the questions - although I'm surprised at the level of details they are going to. These questions are more the sort you expect from your BCO tbh. They are fair comment generally however and should be answered by the parties I listed above as part of their fee (because they need to be answered to mean a proper BW submission is being presented).

 

I would add that the world over, engineers are possibly the worst people to deal with and I would suggest avoiding the temptation to sack him/her. Too far down the line for that. You need to stick with them - a visit to their office might help! I've found them useless tbh and not worth their invoices time for the value they added, which was box ticking more than anything else.  

[Incipiens Mox]

6 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

So BW is your Building Warrant submission. In Scotland anyway, these are more detailed drawings than the plans, showing how each element will be built, and demonstrating how the house will be built to current standards. In our case, we had elevations, showing window openings, cladding, roof details etc. The floor plans showed layout, smoke alarms, door opening, stairs, kitchen layout, bathrooms, lighting plan, stop cocks, hot water, heating, ventilation amongst others. These were also accompanied by a Specification which provided written detail on various elements - walls, roof build up, heating spec, details on stairs, Handrails, insulation, and much more. 

 

The other set of documents are the engineer drawings to cover the structural elements, and drainage. 

 

As a package these are all submitted to Building Control (normally by the architect)  who will approve these as the house being built - or seek clarifications or changes if they are not satisfied the submission addresses the regulations. Once you have the BW approved, you can start building - to the design submitted. You can change elements, however will require an amendment to warrant later on - or a whole new submission if major changes.

 

The mortgage people seem pretty clued up hence the questions - although I'm surprised at the level of details they are going to. These questions are more the sort you expect from your BCO tbh. They are fair comment generally however and should be answered by the parties I listed above as part of their fee (because they need to be answered to mean a proper BW submission is being presented).

 

I would add that the world over, engineers are possibly the worst people to deal with and I would suggest avoiding the temptation to sack him/her. Too far down the line for that. You need to stick with them - a visit to their office might help! I've found them useless tbh and not worth their invoices time for the value they added, which was box ticking more than anything else.  

 

First of all, a massive thank you jamiehamy for taking the time to give me such a detailed response. I'll be using this in my discussions with the SE. As I mentioned earlier, I moved from using an architect to the current SE after the architect pulled out. I don't believe there's a Building Warrant as such but you're right that most of these items should have been addressed in the submission, not flagged by the BCO.

 

To be clear, the list of missing / unaddressed items was supplied by the BCO in their rejection letter. The only thing that I've heard from the mortgage broker is that the underwriters will not consider my application any further until I provide them with approved PP and BC. I'm hoping that this will be the last serious issue to overcome in funding, but optimism and self-build rarely go hand in hand!

 

I agree with you 100% about the SE in that I'm so close to starting the build that I don't want to shake things up right now particularly unless other, more serious issues arise. I don't expect any other SE would be that much better and as he's been paid in full, I'd like to pressure him a bit to deliver the goods before moving on. I'll probably be popping in for a 'friendly chat' in the next week or so.

[jamiehamy]

On 30/12/2017 at 14:52, Incipiens Mox said:

 

First of all, a massive thank you jamiehamy for taking the time to give me such a detailed response. I'll be using this in my discussions with the SE. As I mentioned earlier, I moved from using an architect to the current SE after the architect pulled out. I don't believe there's a Building Warrant as such but you're right that most of these items should have been addressed in the submission, not flagged by the BCO.

 

To be clear, the list of missing / unaddressed items was supplied by the BCO in their rejection letter. The only thing that I've heard from the mortgage broker is that the underwriters will not consider my application any further until I provide them with approved PP and BC. I'm hoping that this will be the last serious issue to overcome in funding, but optimism and self-build rarely go hand in hand!

 

I agree with you 100% about the SE in that I'm so close to starting the build that I don't want to shake things up right now particularly unless other, more serious issues arise. I don't expect any other SE would be that much better and as he's been paid in full, I'd like to pressure him a bit to deliver the goods before moving on. I'll probably be popping in for a 'friendly chat' in the next week or so.

I'll dig out our spec tonight and see if any is relevant to yours and post. SE is probably not as au  fait with this tuff so might we be better to be proactive.