Vehicle 2 Grid - octopus open

[Kelvin]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

We generated a 3kWh today, far from self sustaining here. The joy of being north.

25kWh today. Max has been 35kWh so far. Lowest 10kWh. 

[S2D2]

18 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Borehole=eureka! I'm currently battling with Hafren water over a 76% rise in water only supply over the last 5 years and 100% increase if I include the current bill. A borehole sounds a dream come true but I guess there's a fair wedge of an outlay.......and regulation?

Also interested in a new thread on this, my water bill is about to overtake the electric bill!

[Kelvin]

20 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Borehole=eureka! I'm currently battling with Hafren water over a 76% rise in water only supply over the last 5 years and 100% increase if I include the current bill. A borehole sounds a dream come true but I guess there's a fair wedge of an outlay.......and regulation?

Can be expensive. Our hole (147m) cost £18,000 just to drill the hole (seller of the plot paid for it not me) The plant equipment cost £8500 (I paid for that) No regulation. We had to send a sample of the water away for analysis to determine what treatment was necessary. 

[S2D2]

9 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Can be expensive. Our hole (147m) cost £18,000 just to drill the hole (seller of the plot paid for it not me) The plant equipment cost £8500 (I paid for that) No regulation. We had to send a sample of the water away for analysis to determine what treatment was necessary. 

Retrofit payback 45 years then, nevermind!

[Kelvin]

1 hour ago, S2D2 said:

Retrofit payback 45 years then, nevermind!

It can be done for far less too but our hole is particularly deep. Some systems have relatively shallow holes, loads of water and no treatment needed. 

[MikeSharp01]

5 hours ago, Kelvin said:

It can be done for far less too but our hole is particularly deep. Some systems have relatively shallow holes, loads of water and no treatment needed. 

Do you need an extraction licence or some such?

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Do you need an extraction licence or some such?

No, unless you are a BIG user, like a farmer, domestic user no.

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

o, unless you are a BIG user, like a farmer, domestic user no.

OK- rather hijacked this thread hear so started a new topic. 

 

[JamesPa]

13 hours ago, S2D2 said:

 

 

Yes, this is already playing out with DNOs that will not fit larger than 80A cutouts. Plenty in my opinion but it makes the local charger installers panic when you have a 32A induction hob, 2x16A ovens and a 40A heat pump. I actually had to inform the latest I had round that the premium chargers do offer a second CT clamp to limit overall household power draw and avoid blowing the cutout. Their initial solution was just to hamstring the charger to not far off a granny charger at all times despite the fact the house load never goes above ~40A.

 

Good (that the DNOs are imposing limits).

 

I really don't see why we should all be forced to pay for the fact that some people want an indulgent lifestyle where they expect to have everything they want exactly when they want it.  There is almost no harm in occasionally turning down a heat pump or an EV charger for a short period of time to avoid unnecessary demand peaks forcing unnecessary mass infrastructure upgrade. 

 

Those who want the luxury should pay for it, the rest of us should have a sensibly moderated house system and shouldn't be forced to pay for infrastructure upgrade beyond that needed to deliver to a sensibly moderated house.

 

I could easily find myself arguing for forced downgrades to 60A or even less, unless you make a very substantial capital or recurring contribution.

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

I really don't see why we should all be forced to pay for the fact that some people want an indulgent lifestyle where they expect to have everything they want exactly when they want it. 

I think it is in France that domestic electrical load is limited to quite a low level.

Maybe @Mike or @Garald can tell us more.  France has a lot of nuclear, so while low CO₂, it is not the fastest responding generation source.  They are well connected to other countries though, which helps with bulk transmission when needed.

[S2D2]

3 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

could easily find myself arguing for forced downgrades to 60A or even less, unless you make a very substantial capital or recurring contribution.

This is implemented in Belgium with capacity tariffs, where your largest 15 minute averaged power draw dictates your unit rate for all usage.

 

I'm not a fan as its something to pay attention to on a daily basis but I have no idea what sort of infrastructure savings it would offer.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, S2D2 said:

This is implemented in Belgium with capacity tariffs, where your largest 15 minute averaged power draw dictates your unit rate for all usage.

Be a bugger for me as I am on a ToU tariff (E7) with around 85% of my usage during the night.

[S2D2]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Be a bugger for me as I am on a ToU tariff (E7) with around 85% of my usage during the night.

Dynamic pricing seems a much better idea.

[JamesPa]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Be a bugger for me as I am on a ToU tariff (E7) with around 85% of my usage during the night.

 

in response to

 

15 minutes ago, S2D2 said:

This is implemented in Belgium with capacity tariffs, where your largest 15 minute averaged power draw dictates your unit rate for all usage.

 

I'm not a fan as its something to pay attention to on a daily basis but I have no idea what sort of infrastructure savings it would offer.

 

Yes but you could combine both ideas given that at night the baseload is smaller.  And simple switched automation would avoid the need to 'pay attention'  Car chargers already come with load measuring/limiting features and ASHPs come with electricity company shut outs.  A bit of logic controlling both would very likely deliver a solution invisible, or almost invisible, to the householder.

 

The more we discuss this the less convinced I become about the need for mass infrastructure upgrades of the scale often discussed, provided we are sensible.  Ahh - I just spotted the problem!

Edited August 1 by JamesPa

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, S2D2 said:

Dynamic pricing seems a much better idea.

To those that understand it and have a choice/influence on when power is used.

Would not help my Mother's Care Home, they would be crippled more than the inmates.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, JamesPa said:

Ahh - I just spotted the problem!

Others trying to do the same.

[S2D2]

8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

To those that understand it and have a choice/influence on when power is used.

Would not help my Mother's Care Home, they would be crippled more than the inmates.

As a carrot rather than a stick, I don't know which way the Belgian system was implemented though. Probably similar to UK ToU, a comparative carrot in the context of the soaring standing charge stick.

Edited August 1 by S2D2

[Gone West]

46 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

I could easily find myself arguing for forced downgrades to 60A or even less

I didn't realise that that our fuse is 60A until OVO came to put an isolation switch in our box.

[Dillsue]

3 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

 

in response to

 

 

Yes but you could combine both ideas given that at night the baseload is smaller.  And simple switched automation would avoid the need to 'pay attention'  Car chargers already come with load measuring/limiting features and ASHPs come with electricity company shut outs.  A bit of logic controlling both would very likely deliver a solution invisible, or almost invisible, to the householder.

Isnt a large part of our energy woes the fact that Joe public neither understands or cares about the realities of energy generation or delivery?? Having to pay a bit more attention and understand the cost and effort of delivering power at peak times might help reduce peak demand??

[S2D2]

18 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Isnt a large part of our energy woes the fact that Joe public neither understands or cares about the realities of energy generation or delivery?? Having to pay a bit more attention and understand the cost and effort of delivering power at peak times might help reduce peak demand??

Should they have to? Regulations should handle it in the background, e.g. insist on a whole house CT clamp and dont let an EV charger push it over whatever the DNO tells you for your area. Joe public would never even notice, car is still plugged in when they get home and ready to go in the morning.

 

There's already something coming through on this I think, new builds are set to avoid charging at peak times unless you untick the obscurely named setting well hidden from your average user.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> This is implemented in Belgium with capacity tariffs, where your largest 15 minute averaged power draw dictates your unit rate for all usage.

 

Well that's sort of an idea - except that it should depend on time of day. Someone well organised to charge their car and their house with their HP in the middle of the night shouldn't be penalised.

 

Someone that generates their own peak demand when the rest of the country is too, maybe should.

[Mike]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

7 hours ago, JamesPa said:

I really don't see why we should all be forced to pay for the fact that some people want an indulgent lifestyle where they expect to have everything they want exactly when they want it. 

I think it is in France that domestic electrical load is limited to quite a low level.

The big difference in France is that your standing charge depends on the capacity you choose - 15, 30, 45 or 60A, the maximum monophase supply. After that you're paying for 3-phase. In round figures, 15A costs around €10 per month, 60A around €20. Installing a load-shedder* may therefore be a good investment.

 

As a result, around 70% of all domestic properties (including apartments) in France have a 30A connection. That's typical for a house with gas heating, for example. For an all-electric house, it's likely to be 60A.

 

France relies much more than the UK on electric heating, so electricity demand is about 50% higher than the UK. So, if everyone had an 80A or 100A supply, the grid might have to be doubled, or more, to cope with peak demand.

 

Switching the UK to a similar model would no doubt significantly reduce the number of new power lines needed for electrification. If it had been done a decade or two ago, gas generation might already be much lower.

 

*Load-shedders temporarily disconnect one or more low-priority loads (water heating, central heating, washing machine, etc.) if the total load approaches the maximum - for example while cooking - and avoids moving up to a higher subscription.

 

Edited August 1 by Mike

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, Mike said:

The big difference in France is that your standing charge depends on the capacity you choose - 15, 30, 45 or 60A, the maximum monophase supply

I should add that, thanks to a single nation-wide digital electricity meter system, your power gets cut if you exceed the subscribed limit for a certain time (about 2 minutes, from memory); you then have to reset it via the meter. Avoiding that is another benefit of a load-shedder!

[Kelvin]

We have a 100A fuse but could easily survive on 60A. While we consume a lot of energy over the day the peak load isn’t that high.