ProDave Posted March 18 Posted March 18 My take is RJ45's are tedious to terminate, so I didn't terminate them all. I just terminate them and put them into use as needed. Just make sure there are plenty to all rooms where you think you will need them AND where you don't. A good place to hide them until you find a use for them in in a service void next to 13A sockets. If you need one pop out the adjacent socket box and fish for it. So far I have only put 2 into use, but I don't have cameras etc. Almost every thing works on wifi.
bmj1 Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Or run them in pairs. The cables are cheap. That way if one fails, you've got a backup. 2
Dreadnaught Posted March 18 Posted March 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, YorkieSelfBuild said: How have you've been able to do that? Are they straight ducts, no bends? I used to 20mm flexible conduit to snake through my open-web joists and then down inside wall cavities (MF walls). For the longest runs (about 15m) it was a devil to get the cable through but persevered and succeeded in the end after trying every method I could think of. Short runs were easy. Still worth it I thought because to replace the cable would be a process of attaching the new cable to the old and pulling backwards through the conduit, which should be easier than what I just did. I am terminating each cable to an ethernet euro-module wall socket mounted in a back box at each end. And have bought a bunch of short cat-6 patch cables from China for then connecting those sockets to the switches, etc. In terms of topology, I decided not to have a single "data cabinet" with a single patch panel. Instead I am running trunk cabling around the house to three different locations, there to have an 8x port switch (2.5 Gbps, passive, fan-less) in a discreet location. Three 8-port switches in total: one in my Plant Room, one in the coat cupboard in my living room, and one in a wardrobe in Bedroom 2. This gives me the number of ports I need. In each location I have a pair of double ethernet euro-sockets mounted in the wall, matched with a double power outlet for powering the switch and a spare power outlet. Personally I like this distributed mini-patch-panel approach – simpler, less cable. And with this approach there is no termination to RJ45s. Instead just push-down in to Euro modules – fiddly but easy. And buying pre-made patch cables for reliability. Edited March 18 by Dreadnaught
Adsibob Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, mads said: If you can afford it, go with the Cat6a now Why is this important? I was initially annoyed when my electrician laid CAT5e cable in my house. I was surprised as it was one of the details I had overlooked in my spec; I just assumed that given CAT5e was what people were laying 20 years ago, he would have gone with Cat 6. But note I’ve actually lived in the house for a couple of years, I can’t complain. The internet works really well. I’m probably about 6M from my nearest AP and getting very high speeds on everything, over 320Mbps. I also not that my Ring PoE cameras come with CAT5e cable. I get that Cat 6 and even Cat 7 and 8 offer better future proofing, but what might happen in the future that could require that? We are on the whole talking about home networking aren’t we? Edited March 19 by Adsibob
bmj1 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 2 hours ago, mads said: If you can afford it, go with the Cat6a now Definitely terminate and test after cables are laid. Leave an extra half coil length so when you cut off the plug to properly fit you have enough length left. Yes, terminate after you have run the cables. Its a PITA to run with the plugs attached. Fit them afterwards. Not convinced it makes sense to go from cat6 to cat6a unless the distance requires it. Cat6a cables are more costly, take more time to run and to terminate... If within the right distance, they should perform the same 1
joth Posted March 19 Posted March 19 7 hours ago, bmj1 said: Not convinced it makes sense to go from cat6 to cat6a unless the distance requires it. Cat6a cables are more costly, take more time to run and to terminate... If within the right distance, they should perform the same I'm inclined to agree. CAT6a doesn't cost much more but adds agro as it's harder to source (esp if you want a selection of jacket colours) and harder to terminate correctly. The main benefit is thicker cores makes it a whisker more efficient for PoE power delivery, and shielding is never a bad I idea. I installed it and don't regret it, my bigger regret is not pulling enough cables to a couple locations (behind TV in particular, it's the one place I should have put ducting to and didn't)
mads Posted March 19 Posted March 19 7 hours ago, Adsibob said: Why is this important? I was initially annoyed when my electrician laid CAT5e cable in my house. I was surprised as it was one of the details I had overlooked in my spec; I just assumed that given CAT5e was what people were laying 20 years ago, he would have gone with Cat 6. But note I’ve actually lived in the house for a couple of years, I can’t complain. The internet works really well. I’m probably about 6M from my nearest AP and getting very high speeds on everything, over 320Mbps. I also not that my Ring PoE cameras come with CAT5e cable. I get that Cat 6 and even Cat 7 and 8 offer better future proofing, but what might happen in the future that could require that? We are on the whole talking about home networking aren’t we? personally, I think it is a good half way house between cat5 and cat7 (I don't see a residential need for cat7/8 unless you have a MASSIVE house). It can be more expensive than cat6 but I find most people are not comparing like-for-like as they compare unshielded cat6 against a shielded cat6a (I just re-checked on Cable Monkey website and costs were comparable in my view). I agree with @bmj1 that some of it comes down to how long the run is and I did caveat that if you can afford it you should. As others said, make sure you have enough runs into a room first and then consider how much budget you have for determining cable type. In my last place, the lounge had 4 network points for TV, AV etc and then a WAP for the wireless devices. Re: future, the things I see requiring more data transmission are high def TVs mainly but who knows what the future might bring. I am thinking real-time streaming of CCTV with AI might require a bit more data too.
bmj1 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 33 minutes ago, joth said: I'm inclined to agree. CAT6a doesn't cost much more but adds agro as it's harder to source (esp if you want a selection of jacket colours) and harder to terminate correctly. The main benefit is thicker cores makes it a whisker more efficient for PoE power delivery, and shielding is never a bad I idea. I installed it and don't regret it, my bigger regret is not pulling enough cables to a couple locations (behind TV in particular, it's the one place I should have put ducting to and didn't) This is where the £30 unifi mini switches come into their own Edited March 19 by bmj1 1
bmj1 Posted March 19 Posted March 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, bmj1 said: This is where the £30 unifi mini switches come into their own I.e. these: https://uk.store.ui.com/uk/en/products/usw-flex-mini Totally brilliant when combined with a unifi switch, allows you to effectively turn 1 wire into 4 wires at the point of termination. And can be powered by POE (which is super neat) Edited March 19 by bmj1
joth Posted March 19 Posted March 19 11 hours ago, bmj1 said: This is where the £30 unifi mini switches come into their own yeah, but no, but yeah - there's goood but no good when you realise it would be helpful to put HDbaseT and/or TosLink down a spare cable you never installed lol But agree those switches are good to get out of a pinch (assuming all devices are on the same VLAN, which is OK for everything but CCTV in my install) 1
YorkieSelfBuild Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 On 18/03/2025 at 22:01, mads said: If the conduit is wide enough then it shouldn't be hard. You can have bends but not sharp 90 degree ones. Ideally sweeping ones. I am planning for 50mm conduit for pre-made fibre cables to allow for the jacks to not get stuck. I doubt you need so wide for Cat6a cable. Sounds like you are being fobbed off as they don't want to put/have the ducting as they then need to be more careful. Probably true. I'll have another word, ask for quotes. Also try and find another installer who will consider conduits
YorkieSelfBuild Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 On 18/03/2025 at 21:45, SiBee said: Great input from the posters and very useful to myself as I am busy doing a similar job. DIY is very doable and tools are very cheap. The IT guy at work showed me pass through rj45 plugs. Rather than feeding each strand into the tiny terminals, with pass through you just strip the outer sheath approx 20mm, arrange the wires in correct order and push into the plug and crimp. Add boots for strain relief too. Quicker, easier and less chance of failure. Your fingers will thank you if you have to many to do. Yep, saw a YT video with EZ plugs. No punchdown needed
YorkieSelfBuild Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 Great comments so far, really helpful. Does anyone know/recommend any data cabling installers in Sheffield who would consider internal conduits? I need 2nd opinion and more quotes to see what I need to budget for.
mads Posted March 20 Posted March 20 1 hour ago, YorkieSelfBuild said: Great comments so far, really helpful. Does anyone know/recommend any data cabling installers in Sheffield who would consider internal conduits? I need 2nd opinion and more quotes to see what I need to budget for. Why not get the builders to put conduit in and then pull the cable yourselves?
Wil Posted March 20 Posted March 20 18 hours ago, joth said: yeah, but no, but yeah - there's goood but no good when you realise it would be helpful to put HDbaseT and/or TosLink down a spare cable you never installed lol But agree those switches are good to get out of a pinch (assuming all devices are on the same VLAN, which is OK for everything but CCTV in my install) You can choose the VLAN of each port on those individually? I keep my iot and camera network separate to the rest and have 3 of these in the network (mostly to save me getting up and pulling another cable 🙂 )
Adsibob Posted March 20 Posted March 20 2 hours ago, Wil said: I keep my iot and camera network separate to the rest Please could somebody remind me of the benefits of separating networks. I have three different wifi networks setup at home, one of which is 2.4ghz only, but i cannot remember now why I did this!?
Wil Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Generally it’s to keep all the potentially dodgy IOT devices and cameras in a network that can be tightly controlled and prevented from talking to the rest of the world. Then you can initiate traffic from your ‘main’ LAN into the IOT network to get the info but the stuff in the box can’t ‘phone home’. Lots of Shelly/ ESP devices used to be (are?) 2.4GHz only and didn’t play nicely on a mixed 2.4/5Ghz network.
FuerteStu Posted March 20 Posted March 20 I ran twin cat6 cables to all TV points, to areas where I might have a PC/console, external corners for cameras, to the boiler cupboard and several strategic places for a mesh network (like under the stairs and on top of kitchen cupboards) All of these route back to a switch in services cupboard. I've terminated in all sockets myself, and only the rj45 ends when in use. Only thing I would do differently would be an additional twin cables by the front door that could be for alarm keypad to be hardwired. And possibly one external out the front if needed at a later date. TVs have data hardwired and no aerial. I don't regret this at all. I do regret getting a cheap Chinese Mesh, but they are on the list of easy upgrade if I ever get fed up with having to reboot once a month because the scheduled restart seems to lose connectivity with some devices.
YorkieSelfBuild Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 Is having conduits so unusual? I found another installer, actually electrician finding but website says data cabling, and he said "I’ve never known conduits in modern day homes"?!
Adsibob Posted March 20 Posted March 20 5 hours ago, Wil said: Generally it’s to keep all the potentially dodgy IOT devices and cameras in a network that can be tightly controlled and prevented from talking to the rest of the world. Then you can initiate traffic from your ‘main’ LAN into the IOT network to get the info but the stuff in the box can’t ‘phone home’. Lots of Shelly/ ESP devices used to be (are?) 2.4GHz only and didn’t play nicely on a mixed 2.4/5Ghz network. So is a security thing to prevent hackers hacking the device from outside? Sorry not sure I follow. What do you mean by the “box” and what do you mean by “phone home”?
SteamyTea Posted March 21 Posted March 21 7 hours ago, Adsibob said: mean by “phone home” Some connected devices report back to the manufacturer. Whether this is for quality monitoring or spying depends on how paranoid the customer is. 1
Alan Ambrose Posted March 21 Posted March 21 While we only had ‘fibre to the cabinet’ i.e. local copper, and all speeds were v low, it didn’t matter whether we were using wifi or cable for any particular device. When we finally got proper fibre I had to figure out why I was only getting 100 Mbps at my PC. Cue replacement of some hubs for 1 Gbps ones. The old cat5 cabling was fine for 1 gig. The various wifi devices generally get only 30-100 Mbps depending on how close they are to an access point.
SteamyTea Posted March 21 Posted March 21 A quick Google and found this. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2853702 Seems that 4K TV can run at 10Mb/s. No point going above 40Mb/s.
joth Posted March 21 Posted March 21 On 20/03/2025 at 13:56, Wil said: You can choose the VLAN of each port on those individually? I keep my iot and camera network separate to the rest and have 3 of these in the network (mostly to save me getting up and pulling another cable 🙂 ) Yes sorry you're probably right with the unifi flex. I was thinking of cheap unmanageable poe powered switch. I have one that has poe pass through which is very handy, which the unifi flex lacks
YorkieSelfBuild Posted March 21 Author Posted March 21 I'm going to start another thread for data conduits, as I got my answer on WAP or mesh. Thanks all
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