ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Hoostun, we have a prablerm. I'll save you the sob story.I need to know what this stuff is. Our local BMW are experts at making me feel like an idiot when I go in and ask for stuff I've never used before. So could you please tell me what this stuff is, please..... It's a loop containing 3 radiators in our central heating system And I think this valve is leaking... What do you think? Any guidance would be most welcome. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I did a search on Google images...looks like PolyPlumb fittings. Now that's an answer but only if it relates to the question you are asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Which “stuff” do you want identifying ..?? The grey fittings look like PlumbSure or similar - usually from the likes of B&Q. That rad valve looks to have a weep from the spindle but nothing serious unless there is a pool of water I can’t see..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 or John Guest for instance. You just need the diameter of the pipe to get the right bits. Looks like the grey stuff and the copper is 22mm while the white stuff (looks remarkably like John Guest pipe) is 15mm and the ends of the white pipe go into reducers which provide 22mm male to 15mm female connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 What do I want to know? The trade names of the plastic piping: both the white stuff and grey stuff. If you look at the top right of the top right photo, the plastic stuff re-connects to copper piping - but if you look at the radiator that that loop serves, the piping is plastic where it goes into the valve. So for one or two of our radiators on the feed side, the water travels through copper, then plastic, then copper then plastic piping . On the way back it's just plastic. I think our system must have been built by a cobbler, not a plumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) There are a couple of old Hep2O fittings along with old Plumbsure fittings and a mixture of Hep2O (grey) and Speedfit (white) piping. Edited November 17, 2017 by PeterStarck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 or John Guest for instance. You just need the diameter of the pipe to get the right bits. Looks like the grey stuff and the copper is 22mm while the white stuff (looks remarkably like John Guest pipe) is 15mm and the ends of the white pipe go into reducers which provide 22mm male to 15mm female connections. Ahhhhha! I'll get me callipers out. 3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Whatever it is it can connect to or be replaced by any of the standard push fittings HEP20 [...] Now that's really interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Possibly the grey Hep2O piping may not have an oxygen barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) OK, my loft is full of the grey fittings but with copper pipe. There's a few loose fittings here and there that I've collected. The top photo is Hep2O - see the vertical marks on the "nut". Guessing 20 years old as that's when the boiler and upstairs rads were put in. The bottom one with the "wavy" line is from stuff I bought in the last few years. It's unmarked brand wise but I thought up until now it was Hep2O. The designs are very similar. Don't FFS make the mistake I did and try and interchange parts between the two brands. Only time I've had a leak! You seem to have the same mix of grey fittings that I do. Edited November 17, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Thanks @PeterStarck and @MikeSharp01. It'll be a good exercise for me to replace all of it with HEP20 because I'll be using it in Salamander Cottage. I'll get a new valve too. Another steep learning curve coming this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: Possibly the grey Hep2O piping may not have an oxygen barrier. Que? Oxygen barrier?...... Plumber-speak for leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 @Onoff, I am almost sure we have been plumbed using what was left rolling around in the back of a plumbers van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Back in the 90s the original Hep2O pipe didn't have an oxygen barrier which meant oxygen passed through the pipe walls and into the water. In a central heating system it resulted in corrosion on the radiators etc. even with inhibitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) On 17/11/2017 at 08:28, recoveringacademic said: Que? Oxygen barrier?...... Plumber-speak for leak? No - plumber speak for cheap as £&!# pipe .... Not strictly needed but you can get some oxygenation of the water and corrosion but it takes decades ... leave those gate valves alone too - short length of 22mm copper in each valve, same with the rad tails and then replace the lot with Hep2O. Get some decent pipe shears too ... Edited November 18, 2017 by Nickfromwales Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 minute ago, PeterStarck said: Back in the 90s the original Hep2O pipe didn't have an oxygen barrier which meant oxygen passed through the pipe walls and into the water. In a central heating system it resulted in corrosion in the radiators etc. even with inhibitor. Got it in one. Exactly what we are suffering. It's all the rads which are in the old style HEP2O loop. Excellent tenente! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) On 17/11/2017 at 08:34, PeterW said: [...] leave those gate gate valves alone too - short length of 22mm copper in each valve, same with the rad tails and then replace the lot with Hep2O. [...] Whassa gate gate valve? Edited November 18, 2017 by Nickfromwales It's like a gate valve, edited it out lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 minute ago, PeterW said: Not strictly needed but you can get some oxygenation of the water and corrosion but it takes decades ... Definitely not decades. From experience it takes about three years. I plumbed a house in the early nineties with the original Hep2O pipe and it caused no end of hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Whassa gate gate valve? Brass thing with red wheel on the top .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: Definitely not decades. From experience it takes about three years. I plumbed a house in the early nineties with the original Hep2O pipe and it caused no end of hassle. Surprised that it was only the Hep2O causing that. Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators and boilers with “new” aluminium heat exchangers. A constant source of oxygenated warm water and a nasty mix of metals was a recipe for lots of corrosion ..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Isn''t your "problem" the leaking radiator lockshield valve? Isn't that what you are looking to replace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, PeterW said: Surprised that it was only the Hep2O causing that. Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators and boilers with “new” aluminium heat exchangers. A constant source of oxygenated warm water and a nasty mix of metals was a recipe for lots of corrosion ..! The problem disappeared when I replaced all the Hep2O with Speedfit on the CH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Couldn't you just buy some time with a power flush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Isn''t your "problem" the leaking radiator lockshield valve? Isn't that what you are looking to replace? Yes. But I'm also taking the plumbing bull by the horns (Bit like @jamiehamy) I've been scared of it the whole of my life, but not any more. '... Lockshield valve...' It's just a plain valve isn't it. What does it lock and what does it shield? 1 hour ago, Onoff said: Couldn't you just buy some time with a power flush? That looks like fun. (YT research) But I will want to sell our house this spring and its needs to be done pucca. By me Ha! 1 hour ago, PeterW said: [...] Open systems with F&E tanks caused a lot of issues, as did a mix of lower quality radiators [...] That's exactly what we have, an F&E system (Sound like I know what I'm on about dunnit? ) And the rads were probably 17th hand by the time they were fitted. Looks like an interesting weekend ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: @Onoff, I am almost sure we have been plumbed using what was left rolling around in the back of a plumbers van. Amazing how the same plumber managed to do both our houses! My losses here are horrendous as I've alluded to before I think. The CH for upstairs and HW for up & downstairs run in the uninsulated triangular roof spaces in front of the dormer. All in copper with Hep2O grey fittings. I've tried lagging as best as I can. If I went "up the middle" of the dormer above the ground floor ceiling I could more than halve the pipe runs. Disruptive though, as in rooms emptied and carpets up! As for power flushing...you'd clear the crap out and improve the efficiency for another few years then its A N Others problem. That might sound mercenary but where do you stop. I'm sure new owners would appreciate EWI or you digging a few floors up and putting UFH in but you're not going too. Just clean for now, sell and accept its a periodic maintenance issue for someone else. Edited November 17, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 On the specific oxygen permeable /barrier point, Hep2O sell two types of pipe one slightly cheaper than he other. The more expensive barrier pipe must be used for CH applications for the reason that Peter explained, and can be used for potable water; the other can only be used for potable water, but is perfectly fine for that use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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