Self Build Ahoy!

[CaptainDram]

Hi, great to join the community.

 

we are early stages on a self build project in Scotland. Site has previous DPP by a family member and now we’re starting the process from scratch!

 

Looking to build a 5 bed over 185 m2 where the following things are important to us:

 

-SIPs vs Timber Frame

- MVHR

- Air source heat pump

- 2 floor under floor (interested in how to do upper floor in kit house)

- control 4

- Solar with 10Kwh batt

- aluminium windows 

- site demo

- removing trees under TPO

 

All things above are things I expect to post questions on at some point. Glad to be part of the community and looking forward to listening and learning!

 

Captain Dram

 

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome.  

 

Lots to work out in due course.  But I will start with if you build with enough insulation and air tightness, you won't need heating upstairs.

[saveasteading]

38 minutes ago, CaptainDram said:

a self build project in Scotland.

Central Glasgow or rural Shetland, or something in-between?? 

[CaptainDram]

Outskirts of Glasgow

[CaptainDram]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Hi and welcome.  

 

Lots to work out in due course.  But I will start with if you build with enough insulation and air tightness, you won't need heating upstairs.

Thanks, thinking about SIPs and doing the taping myself to ensure as best airtight as I can. Combining ground floor UFH with MVHR would surely add to your argument?

[Russell griffiths]

Trees with TPO  on them, look into this now, if having the trees there will hamper the build then your in trouble. 
getting a TPO removed is a lengthy process unless they are in poor health. 

[ToughButterCup]

9 hours ago, CaptainDram said:

Outskirts of Glasgow

 

Milngarvie ? Bearsden? 

[Kelvin]

9 hours ago, CaptainDram said:

Thanks, thinking about SIPs and doing the taping myself to ensure as best airtight as I can. Combining ground floor UFH with MVHR would surely add to your argument?

Adding wet UFH to the first floor is an unnecessary expense that adds a degree of complication to your floor build up. A lot of us on here don’t have any heating upstairs apart from heated towel rails and/or electric UFH in the bathroom(s) which is what I’ve done. In addition I fitted sockets at points where we could fit electric wall panel heaters in the upstairs rooms should it ever be necessary. If you build the house well enough you’ll not need UFH upstairs and for the odd day you might want extra heat input there are other ways to achieve that. 
 

We’re in Perthshire and the heating has barely come on at all since the weather turned over the last few weeks and the upstairs rooms are still around 21°C. 

[Benpointer]

On 08/10/2024 at 08:16, Russell griffiths said:

Trees with TPO  on them, look into this now, if having the trees there will hamper the build then your in trouble. 
getting a TPO removed is a lengthy process unless they are in poor health. 

Just noticed that the plot next to ours, which submitted full plans in early October, has has a TPO slapped on an oak tree on the plot in November and the Tree Officer has now complained the self-builders didn't take account of that in their (earlier) planning submission (!)

[Canski]

3 minutes ago, Benpointer said:

Just noticed that the plot next to ours, which submitted full plans in early October, has has a TPO slapped on an oak tree on the plot in November and the Tree Officer has now complained the self-builders didn't take account of that in their (earlier) planning submission (!)

A missed chainsaw opportunity.

[Russell griffiths]

11 minutes ago, Benpointer said:

Just noticed that the plot next to ours, which submitted full plans in early October, has has a TPO slapped on an oak tree on the plot in November and the Tree Officer has now complained the self-builders didn't take account of that in their (earlier) planning submission (!)

Oops, that’s going to be inconvenient. 
or could de-rail the whole application. 

[Benpointer]

18 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Oops, that’s going to be inconvenient. 
or could de-rail the whole application. 

Yes, well, I am now worrying how close that oak tree is to our proposed build (plans not submitted).  

 

How far does a TPO extend?

[BotusBuild]

16 minutes ago, Benpointer said:

How far does a TPO extend?

The tree and all it entails, especially the roots. If what you can see of the tree overhangs where you propose to build, it is highly likely the root system will be there too, so you would be affected.

Deal with any other trees that may affect you before your planning application is submitted.

[Benpointer]

1 minute ago, BotusBuild said:

The tree and all it entails, especially the roots. If what you can see of the tree overhangs where you propose to build, it is highly likely the root system will be there too, so you would be affected.

Deal with any other trees that may affect you before your planning application is submitted.

Thanks.  There are no other trees within 50m of where we want to build.  

 

The oak in question is on our neighbour's plot.  Our topographic shows it to have a 700mm trunk (I assume the surveyor can measure that accurately from a distance these days).  The canopy (c. 11m dia) extends over our property by a few metres but not where we need to build - we should be able to build >15m away from the centre of the oak.

[saveasteading]

TPOs and the technical reason for distance are not quite the same thing.

 

An oak will grow to 23m and that is the height assumed. then the roots affect the ground, more or less according to type.

 

[Russell griffiths]

12 hours ago, Benpointer said:

Thanks.  There are no other trees within 50m of where we want to build.  

 

The oak in question is on our neighbour's plot.  Our topographic shows it to have a 700mm trunk (I assume the surveyor can measure that accurately from a distance these days).  The canopy (c. 11m dia) extends over our property by a few metres but not where we need to build - we should be able to build >15m away from the centre of the oak.

Expect some more expensive foundations on the tree side. 
if you take an imaginary point 10 metres from the trunk and say to yourself that inside that area is a complete no go zone then you will know what your dealing with. 
no excavation for pipes or cables

no driving of plant or equipment 

no storage of materials

no fuel storage

just treat it as the wild natural bit of garden then base your plans around that, then you shouldn’t get any nasty surprises. 
 

if when you do your application you note that the tree has a TPO and you have designed your build to be sympathetic to this it could win you some brownie points. 

Edited November 22 by Russell griffiths

[jack]

15 hours ago, Benpointer said:

Just noticed that the plot next to ours, which submitted full plans in early October, has has a TPO slapped on an oak tree on the plot in November and the Tree Officer has now complained the self-builders didn't take account of that in their (earlier) planning submission (!)

 

Tricky one this. Planning permission overrides TPOs, but I wonder how that works if the TPO is applied after planning is approved? Could it be argued that the TPO was issued in error given planning permission had already been approved?

 

Ignore this, I misread and thought planning had been approved.

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

Tricky one this. Planning permission overrides TPOs, but I wonder how that works if the TPO is applied after planning is approved? Could it be argued that the TPO was issued in error given planning permission had already been approved?

I haven’t read anywhere on here that planning has been approved. 
just applied for. 

[jack]

5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I haven’t read anywhere on here that planning has been approved. 
just applied for. 

 

Ah you're right, I misread it. Thanks, I've edited my reply.

 

Is it possible to appeal a TPO being placed on a tree?

[Bancroft]

15 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

Deal with any other trees that may affect you before your planning application is submitted.

+1 for this.

 

We had a planning officer visit when we were putting in a Pre-Application.  She actually said "If that tree is still there when you put the application in, then it will need to be taken into account."

 

She then looked at me in a way that suggested they didn't care what might or might not happen before they receive any paperwork...

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

Ah you're right, I misread it. Thanks, I've edited my reply.

 

Is it possible to appeal a TPO being placed on a tree?

Yes you can appeal the placing of a tpo. 

[saveasteading]

5 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

inside that area is a complete no go zone 

A good way of thinking about it. However it doesn't apply to some conifers or to permanently small varieties.

[Benpointer]

I've spoke to our architect, he thinks we will be fine as we don't plan to build close to the tree but we will need an Arboricultural Impacts Assessment to demonstrate that we are taking account of the TPO.  

 

Power was put in last year - across the tree roots, I would guess - by the vendor and before the TPO was in place, so all good there.  

 

We have two existing buildings (a garage & a workshop) within 10m of the tree and we had considered knocking those down and replacing them but now I feel we can refurb them without any digging. 

 

Thanks as ever for the feedback / suggestions.

[jack]

On 22/11/2024 at 13:28, Russell griffiths said:

Yes you can appeal the placing of a tpo. 

 

Thanks.

 

We had a TPO slapped on all the trees at the front of our house while we were in the process of buying it. From memory, we didn't become aware of it until we'd exchanged or perhaps even later.

 

The buyer who beat us when we initially tried to buy the property was a developer. One possibility is that they approached the council for planning advice (it's an oddly shaped block with an unusual level change across the back garden), which triggered the intervention of the tree guy at the council. Alternatively, one of the neighbours might have said something to the council when they realised developers were sniffing around. There'd been all sorts of nastiness during attempts by our neighbour to get planning so it's possible someone wanted to get some constraints in place.

 

All speculation of course, but the previous owners had lived there since the early 1950s, and the trees are probably even older than that, so the timing of the TPO is suspicious.

 

I do wish we'd appealed at the time. We subsequently had a tree survey done. Turns out most of the trees subject to the TPO were of very low quality and arguably should not have had TPOs on them. We were completely ignorant of what it all meant, plus had too much else on at the time to properly look into it.

The result was that the front half of the house couldn't extend beyond the original footprint of the bungalow we knocked down. We could really have used even an extra metre widthwise, and the garage/workshop could have been made a more useful size.

 

As I still say (nearly 9 years after moving in) when I spot something I wish I'd done differently: "Next house".

[CaptainDram]

I’ve cleared our site a bit before we have a planning consultant take a look. 
 

there are 4/5 trees that are of concern. Two large conifers that are inside the area of where we want the footprint of the house to be. An overhead cable runs through one onto the property next door. Luckily they also want rid of the two conifers for various reasons.

 

the other problem trees are at the back boundary. One is dead. The other is holding up a retaining wall that needs to be removed. I’ll post done pictures as I’d be interested in the thoughts here!