Architects initial drawing. Not sure it works?

[flanagaj]

So my wife and I want to put in a revised planning application for a modernist style house.   We showed the architect the image shown in the attachment and she came up with the below.   I personally am worried that it doesn't do it justice and if that gets submitted, the locals will just say it's out of character.   She is very reasonable and is charging a fixed fee which is probably 10% of what we'd pay if we went to a RIBA architect practice.   Can anyone advise on how to proceed, or have any ideas?

 

[DevilDamo]

53 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

the locals will just say it's out of character

And the image you posted would be in character?

 

With a few minor design tweaks and including a material palette or samples, then fine. I personally find submitted coloured elevations can do more harm than good. Or if you are going down the coloured elevations route, instruct somebody to produce some CGI’s. 

[flanagaj]

16 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

And the image you posted would be in character?

 

With a few minor design tweaks and including a material palette or samples, then fine. I personally find submitted coloured elevations can do more harm than good. Or if you are going down the coloured elevations route, instruct somebody to produce some CGI’s. 

Good point.  It is out of character, as the road is a mixed bag of single and two storey dwellings.   I was just wondering whether getting some really good sketches might help sway the locals.

[DevilDamo]

Were the locals up in arms with the first application? If so, what did that look like?

[flanagaj]

7 hours ago, DevilDamo said:

Were the locals up in arms with the first application? If so, what did that look like?

No, because the owner of the plot designed the house themselves so it was similar to their current property.  They then decided that they didn't want to build the house, and we purchased the plot.   Below is the planning that was granted.

[JohnMo]

I would look to tweek the approved design.

Porch needs a bit of thought

The end wall blank needs something to lift it design wise

Maybe a window change or two

 

Plenty of scope for solar, which is good

 

[DevilDamo]

I wouldn’t get too worried about the locals and their opinions. You’re not going to please everybody. 

[Jilly]

The permitted design looks like a bungalow, so there was nothing to object to. Increasing the height could scare the locals. I visited everyone who would be affected and showed them the plans to gauge reactions.

Edited July 31 by Jilly

[PNAmble]

Our build is very different from all other houses around and the initially approved plans, it’s cubist, flat roof, fibre cement cladding as opposed to chalet style bungalows.  
 

No objections from neighbours. Now it’s built it splits opinion, some love it as it’s modern some hate it.  We get a lot of neighbours talking to us as we landscape.  

As long as you aren’t changing ridge heights, I’d be tempted to submit plans as you want them, no reason to keep building the same looking houses.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> no reason to keep building the same looking houses

 

In fact those almost certainly were not great houses, at least judging by today's standards. So, every reason to change.

[Alan Ambrose]

I agree about the renders or even hand drawn. Most of us are superficial. Some of us (including planners and councillors) can't think in 3D.

 

So, make it easy for everyone and produce the prettiest picture you can, in particular showing what it will look like from the street.

 

So that you stand your best chance of getting it approved first time.

[Bozza]

Based upon the planners granting permission for the previous owners monstrosity of a design, it looks like they aren’t precious about good architecture.   But it’s not just about what it looks like it’s the siting etc.  Your design would look awful between two thatched cottages, but could look superb in the right setting. 
 

I replaced a traditional rural cottage with an obviously modern house but used sympathetic materials and roof angles.  It flew through planning.    but I’d didn’t have immediate neighbours.
 

Some local authority rural planning policies allow for architecture that is not in keeping as long as it’s architecturally outstanding. 

 

I’d push your architect to have the varying heights of cladding in the picture as I think her design is a bit bland and blocky & looks more like a commercial building.  The picture that inspired you shows interesting shapes, angles, overhangs and differing heights, the drawing doesn’t.  

if I were you I’d meet the neighbours and suss them out.  They might not like your ideas but may not object if you have built a good relationship.  There may be opportunities to tweak your preferred design in a way that may prevent objections.   Eg screen planting if they didn’t like it.
 

Some neighbours can be dicks.  And object to everything.  But some self builders can be dicks by not being considerate of their community and wonder why they get so many objections.  Don’t forget you have to live there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Jones]

i like it!

 

whats the context, neighbours etc ?

[flanagaj]

6 hours ago, Bozza said:

if I were you I’d meet the neighbours and suss them out.  

 

I’d push your architect to have the varying heights of cladding in the picture as I think her design is a bit bland and blocky & looks more like a commercial building.  The picture that inspired you shows interesting shapes, angles, overhangs and differing heights, the drawing doesn’t.  

 

We've met the neighbours twice during the procurement of the land.  They mandated to the agent, that they wanted to meet prospective buyers.  We had coffee and cake, and got on really well.   I obviously didn't let slip that we were going to put in for a revised planning permission before we'd completed on the purchase.   I then sent her an email with some photos of modernist properties, and explained that we were looking to build something modernist.  I didn't even get a reply to my email.  Then today, I was just doing some clearing on the site, and I spot a figure hiding behind a tree in the adjacent crop field peaking over to me loading the skip.  Cut a long story short, it was the husband of the couple who sold us the plot.  Very weird, and I think they are going to be a right pain in the ****

I agree re the Architect, but I'll be honest and say that she does not have the modernist vision.  Her portfolio is just non descript Bellway style houses.   She is super cheap, and her fees for drawings and planning submission is only £1800.   I did look at the fees for a RIBA architect, and 14% of 300k is 42k.  I just don't have that amount of money to spend on Architect fees.   I am only looking for initial design ideas + sketches + planning + technical detail drawings, and didn't want to spend more than 10k.    

[mjc55]

55 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

 

We've met the neighbours twice during the procurement of the land.  They mandated to the agent, that they wanted to meet prospective buyers.  We had coffee and cake, and got on really well.   I obviously didn't let slip that we were going to put in for a revised planning permission before we'd completed on the purchase.   I then sent her an email with some photos of modernist properties, and explained that we were looking to build something modernist.  I didn't even get a reply to my email.  Then today, I was just doing some clearing on the site, and I spot a figure hiding behind a tree in the adjacent crop field peaking over to me loading the skip.  Cut a long story short, it was the husband of the couple who sold us the plot.  Very weird, and I think they are going to be a right pain in the ****

I agree re the Architect, but I'll be honest and say that she does not have the modernist vision.  Her portfolio is just non descript Bellway style houses.   She is super cheap, and her fees for drawings and planning submission is only £1800.   I did look at the fees for a RIBA architect, and 14% of 300k is 42k.  I just don't have that amount of money to spend on Architect fees.   I am only looking for initial design ideas + sketches + planning + technical detail drawings, and didn't want to spend more than 10k.    

The neighbours wanted to vet you?  I am a bit gobsmacked that they a) did this and b) the estate agent agreed!  Or were the neighbours the ones selling the land/property?

 

As regards fees, that is a difficult one.  I retrained, after many years working in IT, to be an Architectural Technologist.  Setting prices s not an easy task, and to a degree there was an element of buying in work when I first started.  However, I do not like the RIBA method of a percentage of build costs at all, I really don't see the justification for this.  The amount of work required to design a house does not vary significantly according to the cost to construct it IMO. 

[flanagaj]

3 minutes ago, mjc55 said:

The neighbours wanted to vet you?  I am a bit gobsmacked that they a) did this and b) the estate agent agreed!  Or were the neighbours the ones selling the land/property?

 

As regards fees, that is a difficult one.  I retrained, after many years working in IT, to be an Architectural Technologist.  Setting prices s not an easy task, and to a degree there was an element of buying in work when I first started.  However, I do not like the RIBA method of a percentage of build costs at all, I really don't see the justification for this.  The amount of work required to design a house does not vary significantly according to the cost to construct it IMO. 

The neighbours were the ones selling the land.  

[MR10]

I would spend zero time wondering or worrying about the neighbours and focus on getting a design you like that works for you internally and externally. The nicest of neighbours can turn into absolute PIAs. They can object as much as they like and if there are any valid objections then you can consider making some concessions if it helps the planning approval.

I would say do not try to please them from the start and do not share any plans with them, you may just be giving them enough time to build up ammunition. They'll get enough notification once planning application is submitted.

Good luck, sounds like you're going to need it.

[flanagaj]

40 minutes ago, MR10 said:

I would spend zero time wondering or worrying about the neighbours and focus on getting a design you like that works for you internally and externally. The nicest of neighbours can turn into absolute PIAs. They can object as much as they like and if there are any valid objections then you can consider making some concessions if it helps the planning approval.

I would say do not try to please them from the start and do not share any plans with them, you may just be giving them enough time to build up ammunition. They'll get enough notification once planning application is submitted.

Good luck, sounds like you're going to need it.

Thanks for that MR10.  Given the location of the dwelling and the fact that it is at least 20 metres from the nearest neighbour, the only objections will simply be personal and opinionated.  

[ETC]

Hi there,

 

What don’t you like about it?

It looks more or less like a straight copy apart from the angled side.

Personally I’d get rid of the 80’s patent glazing entrance feature and I think I’d try and hide the garage doors.

[Bozza]

3 hours ago, flanagaj said:

She is super cheap, and her fees for drawings and planning submission is only £1800.   I did look at the fees for a RIBA architect, and 14% of 300k is 42k.  I just don't have that amount of money to spend on Architect fees.   I am only looking for initial design ideas + sketches + planning + technical detail drawings, and didn't want to spend more than 10k.

Ok so what you could do is draw the design yourself.  For inspiration use Pinterest etc and if unsure about layout Danwood homes, and others, have some layouts that will give you ideas.  I did this using PowerPoint, including importing pics of cladding etc.  Post your design & layout here for suggestions and critique.  Once you’re happy, pass to your architect to do the proper technical drawings for submission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ETC]

My attempt.

[Thorfun]

On 31/07/2024 at 09:06, flanagaj said:

I did look at the fees for a RIBA architect, and 14% of 300k is 42k.  I just don't have that amount of money to spend on Architect fees.   I am only looking for initial design ideas + sketches + planning + technical detail drawings, and didn't want to spend more than 10k.   

our RIBA architect wasn't percentage based so shop around. we paid under £10k for everything up to and including building control. any assistance after that point we paid an hourly fee. worked out great for us

[Dave Jones]

9 hours ago, Thorfun said:

our RIBA architect wasn't percentage based so shop around. we paid under £10k for everything up to and including building control. any assistance after that point we paid an hourly fee. worked out great for us

 

never ever pay any subcontractor a fee based on a percentage of your build. Total rip off, they are scamming you based on the postcode. Same plot in a London postcode gets them treble for same amount of work.

 

They get away with rip off services because they can, similar to solicitors taking months to do a completion that could be organised in a day etc. 

[ETC]

[ETC]

Another quick sketch.