LnP Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) It's been said on here before, but this graph from the European Heat Pump Association shows clearly the relationship. A higher ratio of electricity price to gas price ("spark gap") correlates with fewer heat pump installs. The UK has the highest spark gap amongst the countries included in the analysis. No surprise then that people in the UK are not choosing to install heat pumps so much as other countries .... when there is a choice. Btw, it's helpful that the UK are included in this analysis. Edited July 25 by LnP 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Yes it is not rocket science. At the moment, at best, a well installed heat pump working well will just about match the running cost of a gas boiler. That is not much of a selling point is it? Most of us on here do it for other reasons, mine being no mains gas here, and I did not want an oil tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 2 hours ago, ProDave said: no mains gas here, and I did not want an oil tank. Will there be oil at affordable prices in a few years? Will gas be turned off? (Putin related) Will electricity price fall? Are you constructing a new floor suitable for UFH anyway? And do you want to use less fossil fuel on principle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: Will there be oil at affordable prices in a few years? Will gas be turned off? (Putin related) Will electricity price fall? Are you constructing a new floor suitable for UFH anyway? And do you want to use less fossil fuel on principle? Yes to all of those for me. But the average person in an existing house heated with a gas boiler and radiators, no to most of them. they might not change their minds until the price of gas rockets above the price of electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 19 minutes ago, ProDave said: until the price of gas rockets above the price of electricity. That's going to the first time for a while. All the graphs I see over the last 7 years show them broadly following the same pattern. Check it out: Search for graphs of UK gas and electricity prices images. However supplementing with PV helps and if energy storage became even cheaper we would have more energy than we need for the whole year, then we could tell the grid to (AWAY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Marvin said: broadly following the same pattern. I understand that electricity prices are averaged out wherever you are. So @ProDave pays as if it was gas powered even though he will be getting wind power, costing 1/3 but not passed on locally. If people knew their price could plummet then wind turbines might be loved more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 13 hours ago, saveasteading said: If people knew their price could plummet then wind turbines might be loved more. But the press want to make a bad story of renewables, so that message is never passed on. They like a good NIMBY story. Just need a law like Singapore - which is basically "for the greater good" NIMBY's are basically ignored and have zero say. Government quietly gets on with making things better, the population accepts and reaps the benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 6 hours ago, ProDave said: Most of us on here do it for other reasons, mine being no mains gas here, and I did not want an oil tank. We installed a lot of solar, so an ASHP lets me use some of that. Batteries will eventually help further. There's mains gas on the road, but the bungalow we knocked down wasn't connected to it. I didn't want to have to install a gas line down quite a long driveway. Didn't want a flue exiting the house. Didn't want to pay standing charges for gas. With a very low energy house, you can run the ASHP very low flow temps, which helps improve COP and make the ASHP more competitive with gas. I wanted to do underfloor cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: I understand that electricity prices are averaged out wherever you are. So @ProDave pays as if it was gas powered even though he will be getting wind power, costing 1/3 but not passed on locally. If people knew their price could plummet then wind turbines might be loved more. Talk from Octopus and a couple of other places this week about reducing the cost of electricity to those nearer renewables. Now that'd be an interesting approach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Doe anyone know (or forecast) what solar panels will look like in 2 years? Will they be on a lightweight roll that is simply clipped or screwed to a roof or wall or anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattg4321 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: Doe anyone know (or forecast) what solar panels will look like in 2 years? Will they be on a lightweight roll that is simply clipped or screwed to a roof or wall or anywhere? They’ll look the same as they do now, but be a couple of % more efficient! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: Will they be on a lightweight roll that is simply clipped or screwed to a roof or wall or anywhere They were around in the late 90s or early 2000s. Mostly in thin film amorphous. If you want them still sold slightly different spec. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 A pedant writes: Are these numbers sound? My gas to electricity simple price per unit ratio is 25.49p/kWh to 6.44p/kWh, which is 3.95 not 4.8. Is this some strange average calculation involving standing charge? And do these use A2AHPs or just ASHPs? My impression is that even though UK ASHP pumps are soaring from a low base, there are a lot of people buying A2AHPs as they cost a fraction of the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 11 hours ago, saveasteading said: Doe anyone know (or forecast) what solar panels will look like in 2 years? Will they be on a lightweight roll that is simply clipped or screwed to a roof or wall or anywhere? 8 hours ago, Mattg4321 said: They’ll look the same as they do now, but be a couple of % more efficient! Too many people get over excited about the latest developments in PV, they have stayed the same for decades. There is not much room for efficiency gains from silicone, though other chemistries are available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 3 hours ago, SteamyTea said: .... silicone, ..... Tut, tut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Seems reasonable (to me at least) that the long term direction of oil & gas is up, and the long term direction of renewables (i.e. electricity) is down. So, sooner or later the gap will narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 hours ago, billt said: Tut, tut! Bloody autocorrect allowing me to make a boob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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