Do you trust flexi connectors?

[Crofter]

Had a neighbour suffer damage due to a burst flexi. Has made me a little wary of them! And a bit of googling suggests that there is a definite failure rate.

The application I have in mind is for my shower, so I really want 100% reliability before it gets boxed away and tiled over.

The shower valve has 3/4" connections, and what would ideally do the job is a couple of bent connectors to meet the 15mm pipe- but such a combo seems rather rare (3/4 x 22mm is no problem).

I just happen to have a couple of flexi connectors that I bought by mistake a while ago, which are 3/4 x 15mm, and also have built in isolators which would be handy. But they were very cheap!

 

Has anybody actually had a flexi fail?

[RichS]

Yes, I had one fail in our utility room, under the sink.

Luckily we were in at the time and I suddenly heard the sound of gushing water. Only took me a short time to find the problem but the floor was already well covered by the time I got the water turned off. Hate to think what would have happened had we been out for the day, or even worse, on holiday!!

 

[bassanclan]

If it is being boxed in then don't even consider flexis. Ideally it will all be soldered, with your isolation point somewhere else (more accessible) as once it's boxed in you can't use the isolation anyway.

[Ferdinand]

10 minutes ago, RichS said:

Yes, I had one fail in our utility room, under the sink.

Luckily we were in at the time and I suddenly heard the sound of gushing water. Only took me a short time to find the problem but the floor was already well covered by the time I got the water turned off. Hate to think what would have happened had we been out for the day, or even worse, on holiday!!

 

 

Suggest the best answer to that is a Surestop airswitch that can click off water like a light switch. Mount it on the wall or just inside a cupboard, and use every time you go out. A WRAS approved version is available.

About 30-50 £££.

 

F

[Crofter]

Ok so it's not paranoid to avoid using them!

 

Shame Hepworth don't appear to do a 3/4x15 bent connector as that would minimise the number of joints in the install. Looks like I'll just have to do the connection in copper and then switch to plastic.

[PeterW]

Just use a 3/4 x 22 bent connector and then a 22 x 15 push spigot reducer ....

 

[Crofter]

Hepworth don't appear to do a 3/4x22 bent connector either, so I'm just going to use a straight 3/4x15 and an elbow. Will take up slightly more room.

 

Funny how when you flick through the BES catalogue it seems like every possible combination is available, and then when you actually need one it doesn't exist

[PeterW]

3/4 iron or tap connector ..,?

[ProDave]

Call me old fashioned, but to me, a flexi is only for a situation where there is movement between the two items, e.g a heat pump t avoid vibration. they are not a means to join 2 fixed items. People use them all the time to connect to sat a WC cistern, but they use them to avoid accurate fixed plumbing?

[Tod28]

This "shower hose adapter" combined with a 1/2 " x 15 mm tap connector

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Tod28 said:

This "shower hose adapter" combined with a 1/2 " x 15 mm tap connector

That fitting isn't for the pressurised side . It only ever sees a bit of pressure from the shower valve to the shower spray.  

[Nickfromwales]

@Crofter. I'm struggling to see how this is so difficult

Do you have the shower valve ? Any pic? 

If it's how I think it'll be, then it's just 2 bent 15x1/2" irons with 1/2x3/4" bushes PTFE'd onto them. And it's a big no to flexis in the void ?.

Flexis end in a female fitting anyway and you should need male. More info please !

 

Ive got bathrooms I did over a decade ago which almost all have 15x3/4 flexis under the bath. Most will have had 15x1/2 flexis to the basin, and some had flexis to the WC. Not one single reported failure, and I'm still in contact with a lot of my previous customers. 

The main cause of flexis dying is them being damaged during fitting. Twisting them to the point they kink, stretching them, over tightening them and worse. . 

Orheteise, if you use good quality ones, they're reliable. 

Almost every boiler has a flexi on the EV, and I've never seen one of those go down either. 

[Crofter]

Oh well the bits are bought now...

I thought the shower needed tap connectors onto it... it's the right thread size anyway... Now that I've got them, is there any reason *not* to use them? The shower valve didn't come with any fittings- previous one I fitted did have elbows which I guess must be 'irons'.

Likewise the outlet, which I had assumed was a 1/2" fitting and therefore needed a 1/2" tap con.

 

[PeterW]

Tap con usually has an “inner flange” that goes inside the tap itself. You may find they won’t fit into the entries on the shower ...

[Nickfromwales]

On 19 October 2017 at 14:45, Crofter said:

Oh well the bits are bought now...

Those words will cut like a knife if they leak after all your hard work . 

What connections are on the shower valve ? Pic ?

Most have a 1/2" or 3/4" female which you ptfe and screw a cooler to iron into. Is this the case ? If not, and there are male 1/2" threads poking out, are you sure they dont take a nut and olive directly ? A link to the shower you finally settled on or some pics would really help to advise properly on this tbh. 

[Jeremy Harris]

On 19/10/2017 at 09:24, ProDave said:

Call me old fashioned, but to me, a flexi is only for a situation where there is movement between the two items, e.g a heat pump t avoid vibration. they are not a means to join 2 fixed items. People use them all the time to connect to sat a WC cistern, but they use them to avoid accurate fixed plumbing?

 

I sort of agree, but there are fixed items where you have no choice but to have some flexibility in the connection.  As an example, the shower feed in both our old house and the new one comes out behind Multipanel shower board.  These outlets are held on by a nut from behind, so have to be fixed to the wall board before it's fitted in place.  This means that the pipe work has to have enough give in it to allow it to be connected up and leak tested before the wall board is bonded to the wall.

 

In our old house I used a flexi, without really giving it much thought, as all the pipe work was copper.  In the new house I'd used plastic pipe, and that allowed enough movement to allow the wall panel to lean out from the wall while fixing things, then be pushed and bonded back when all was well.

 

Another case where I'd have had to use flexis, but got away with using the limited flexibility of plastic pipe was with two of our cabinet  mounted cisterns.  These had side entry fillers and there just wasn't enough space to tighten up the fittings with the cistern in place.  The only way I could fit them was to tighten up the pipework with the cistern unhooked from it's mounting rail and pulled forward, then use the limited flexibility in the plastic pipe to hook the cistern back in place.

 

Finally, just about every kitchen mixer tap I've seen recently, including both the ones in our kitchen and utility room, came with special flexi pipes, with small bore fittings with O rings that fit into the base of the tap.  AFAICS, there's no way to fit a mixer tap like this without using the flexi pipes.

Edited October 21, 2017 by JSHarris

[Crofter]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Those words will cut like a knife if they leak after all your hard work . 

What connections are on the shower valve ? Pic ?

Most have a 1/2" or 3/4" female which you ptfe and screw a cooler to iron into. Is this the case ? If not, and there are male 1/2" threads poking out, are you sure they dont take a nut and olive directly ? A link to the shower you finally settled on or some pics would really help to advise properly on this tbh. 

 

Here's the offending item:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Modern-Concealed-Chrome-Round-Thermostatic-Shower-Mixer-Valve-Kit-SM615A/370901516038?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Chosen because of the idiot proof labelled controls and obviously it was a good price, with 10yr guarantee.

I've fitted the tap cons onto it already, I used Hep connectors and have ditched the flexis.

Whilst I'm more than happy to switch out fittings or even the whole valve if necessary, there's a time issue as it's currently holding up the rest of the bathroom.

[Plumbersmateuk]

2 hours ago, Crofter said:

Here's the offending item:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Modern-Concealed-Chrome-Round-Thermostatic-Shower-Mixer-Valve-Kit-SM615A/370901516038?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Just for info:

I have these albeit from a different supplie, threads are BSP so I used Irons.

 

Pic of one of them here https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/3245-shower-tray-tiles-and-all-the-rest/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-61598

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Plumbersmateuk
Added link

[Gone West]

On 10/18/2017 at 20:35, Ferdinand said:

 

Suggest the best answer to that is a Surestop airswitch that can click off water like a light switch. Mount it on the wall or just inside a cupboard, and use every time you go out. A WRAS approved version is available.

About 30-50 £££.

 

F

I fitted a Surestop in the bungalow before I let it. It was never used and when I moved back in I found it didn't work. Are they the sort of thing that has to be used regularly or they seize up? I think they're a good idea but only if reliable.

[Jeremy Harris]

Our old floating piston type stopcock seizes up - the piston gets stuck in the bore.  The cause is limescale build up.  It may well be that the Surestop suffers something similar if used where the water is hard.

[Nickfromwales]

40 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

I fitted a Surestop in the bungalow before I let it. It was never used and when I moved back in I found it didn't work. Are they the sort of thing that has to be used regularly or they seize up? I think they're a good idea but only if reliable.

Did you use it with the water running ? These don't work if you switch them when the water isn't being drawn.  

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Crofter said:

 

Here's the offending item:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Modern-Concealed-Chrome-Round-Thermostatic-Shower-Mixer-Valve-Kit-SM615A/370901516038?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Chosen because of the idiot proof labelled controls and obviously it was a good price, with 10yr guarantee.

I've fitted the tap cons onto it already, I used Hep connectors and have ditched the flexis.

Whilst I'm more than happy to switch out fittings or even the whole valve if necessary, there's a time issue as it's currently holding up the rest of the bathroom.

Hepworth will have a 15mm x 3/4 tap connector that'll screw straight onto those I'm sure. 

Then a street / spigot bend and away to go. Or some bent ones too

One

 

and another

 

Ignore the prices, they're just random grabs for you to see what's available ?

[Crofter]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Hepworth will have a 15mm x 3/4 tap connector that'll screw straight onto those I'm sure. 

Then a street / spigot bend and away to go. Or some bent ones too

One

 

and another

 

Ignore the prices, they're just random grabs for you to see what's available ?

 

Cool, I'm on the right track then. Have fitted a bent 15x1/2" Hepworth tap con on the outlet, and used straight 15x3/4" of the same on the inlets, because bent ones weren't available. Just had to use a couple of (Hepworth) elbows after.

It'll all get pressure tested before it get boxed in... and the flexis are going in the bin

[Nickfromwales]

??

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Did you use it with the water running ? These don't work if you switch them when the water isn't being drawn.  

Yeah I tried it with the water running but it didn't make any difference. It doesn't matter if the switch is up or down, the water runs, so no failsafe. I don't know how they work but it's probably scaled up as it's before the water softener.