Bluebaron Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Taking into account that I will require a specialist foundation realistically how close can I build to a mature oak tree? im looking at 5-6m. can this be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 For starters, not within its RPA. What ground conditions do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebaron Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 Getting a soil survey done but could probably clay. Hence a heave risk hence looking for a workaround Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Post up some pics, this could get very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebaron Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 Ok probably best if I reword. has anyone built less than 6m from a large tree? Don’t care about cost etc just can it /has it been done . Everything on google talks about RPA and deep foundation, I know about all that. I just need to know if the planners will allow it with suitable workarounds etc. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Yes can be done, flying ringbeam above ground, with piles on the outer edge of the RPZ. or steel beam spanning across, you say cost is not an issue, but it must come into play at some point £100,000 extra, £150,000 extra there’s always a price where it all becomes a bit stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 Yes, you can build within 6m of a large tree. You will need a solution that is engineered to accommodate soil heave / shrinkage and not cause damage to the tree or the foundation. May be easier to fell the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) Wouldn’t a pile foundation do it? I’ve got trees nearby (not that big, though) on clay. The piles went down an unbelievable 12m. It was affordable, but there was a big variation in quotes, so ask for several. Also, which way is the prevailing wind…? Best speak to a structural engineer, possibly more than one… Edited May 19 by Jilly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 We are on clay on our previous build With hundreds of trees Tree line about 5 meters Mostly ash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebaron Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 Ok that’s sounds good then, I did wonder as nothing in any planning documents I’ve seen said it can’t be done without proper consideration to the new build and the tree itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 12 minutes ago, Bluebaron said: proper consideration to the new build and the tree itself. I feel you've had lots of good advice on this already. Are you hoping for a different answer this time? Engineering apart..bdcdusd yes if czn bd done.....have you drawn a cross section through the proposed finished building? With the trees to scale as they are now. Then draw on the trees as they will be in 50 years, 25m tall with 1m trunks, and hanging over the house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebaron Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 (edited) Yes thanks for advice everyone. I was looking at ripping the trees out I’m now exploring ways to maybe keep one hence my question. The tree is already over 25m tall with a 1m+ diameter. Edited May 19 by Bluebaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 @Jilly Possible to give a ball park for your piling? I probably have a similar problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDamo Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 3 hours ago, Bluebaron said: Getting a soil survey done but could probably clay. Hence a heave risk hence looking for a workaround As you’re within 10m, you will require specialist foundations (which you already know and have confirmed). The answer to your question lies with a structural engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 It depends a lot on the soil type. We have trees close on clay. According to the soil report and the SE we didn't need exotic foundations. Just deepish trench foundations lined with expansion boards and beam and block floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redoctober Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 We too have a mature Oak on our plot and the Planning consent mentioned that we had to "ring fence" the tree at 3 metres as to protect it and the building had to be 10 metres away at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 12 minutes ago, Redoctober said: ring fence" the tree at 3 metres as to protect it This seems to be a recent fashion, promoted by developers. That could well kill the tree. The roots normally extend to or beyond the canopy. The big ones for stability and searching for water. Lots of tiny ones near the surface for water, nutrient, and air. Advice on trees and foundations shouldn't come from planners, other than 'dont harm the tree'. An arboriculturalist told me the rule of thumb is 1/4 of the roots being cut or stripped or buried will likely kill it, 1/3 almost certainly. It's also going to be less stable in gales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 On 19/05/2024 at 15:29, Bluebaron said: Taking into account that I will require a specialist foundation realistically how close can I build to a mature oak tree? This is a big subject.. and I'm still learning about this as every day is a school day. About 15 -20 years ago I designed a training Gym for a well known London football club, they made the film Chariots of Fire there and when we were doing the work we found the long jump pit in the film.. made my year really.. what an exciting life you can live as an SE! .. it was a bit of nostalgia for me.. but very important to community. Anyway, as you can see in the film there are a lot of iconic trees, classic British refinement, elegance.. the council and local community were crawling all over us which I totally appreciated. The Client was less inclined to see things the way everyone else did. But I explained that as I'm primarily trained as a Civil Engineer (work for the community) then unless they engaged in a Civil manner there would be no new training Gym .. or they could sack me .. play hard ball.. but the council and community had them over a barrel. At the end of the day it was only a few weeks wages for one or two of their mid range players. Now we all talk about on BH about heave, soil shrinking and swelling but when near big trees we also need to think about water starvation of the root system. You don't want a big tree dying and falling on your house, also if under a TPO.. you will be liable if you cause it to die say a few years down the line because you starved it of water. On the Charoits of fire job I ran the roof water drainage back under the building.. but now I know what I know I may have starved the soil from worms and oxygen.. who knows? On 19/05/2024 at 17:49, Jilly said: Also, which way is the prevailing wind…? This is a great point from Jilly although she has not explicitly stated it. A tree needs structural roots to stop it falling over and roots that seek out water and nutrients. @Bluebaron yes you can build close to big trees but you'll need to spend time to understand how the tree is living as you could waste a lot of money just following general guidelines. In the round I think that we should be able to design to live with big old trees and as an SE / past builder/ into the country side this is something that intrests me. The big challenge is to convince others in an evidenced based way. That costs money which is not something that BH folk tend to have.. unless they put in time to learn! Folks there is no free lunch to self building.. it is hard work but very rewarding. When I finished my first self build I though.. add you own comments.. how good did you feel.. there are few folk that can do it! Post a bit more info and if you make an effort the folks like myself and others may chip in with a bit more detailed advice and a few pointers for free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice round the block Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 https://abbeypynford.co.uk/products/treesafe/ The above do an engineered footings and slab when building close to tree's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 34 minutes ago, twice round the block said: The above do an engineered footings and slab when building close to tree's Yes good link.. have had a quick look but they don't seem to cover water starvation and soil aeration. This is stuff that the arboriculturalist will cover in a speclist report.. which you may need to allow you to plan an economic design. If you get standard advice say NHBC etc then you could lose a lot of cash by being too conservative and even then you could damage the trees .. you will have wasted your money. For me I think that our heritage requires at times that we should keep established trees and we should be designing for this. A cracking tree can add value to your property so bear that in mind, don't always assume that the tree is a problem! Also, if you live in the South it can provide natural shading and light in the winter as is a deciduous tree.. if you are designing for a lot of glass then work with that when considering over heating in the summer? Now that could save you a lot of cash or get you out of a heat / gain thermal calculation problem when selecting your glazing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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