Downlighting confusion

[Russell griffiths]

Hi I want to install some downlighting in a bathroom in our current house but the information will be handy to have if we ever get planning for the new house. 

What I am confused about is different lights and loft insulation. 

 

Is there a clear rule for light type if I want to have loft insulation over and around the light. 

 

I can buy fire rated downlights and I can buy led lights that give off very little heat compared to the older style low voltage hot as hell ( halogen ) ones, but can the fire rated ones be completely covered or do they still need a hood over them?

 

the fire rated are more expensive so is it easier to get a gu10 with led bulb and then install the hood thing over the top. 

 

I want to keep the continuation of the insulation as it's a cold draughty house but very conscious of over heating the fitting and fire risk. 

 

Cheers russ, confused in Cirencester. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Nickfromwales

[Temp]

Installation sheet for Fireguard LED downlight. See page 2..

 

http://www.jcc.co.uk/content/uploads/2016/07/JC94472-L-IS-Page-1.pdf

 

 

[ProDave]

All downlights need to have free space above them. That means removing a section of insulation. In a cold roof that means creating a huge hole in the insulation and worse still an air gap for heat to escape. The latter is a little less bad if you use bathroom IP rated downlights that have glass in front of the lamp so less space for air to escape.

 

For this reason I am not a fan of downlighters.

 

I have seen them where the loft insulation monkey comes along later, covers the whole lot in insulation, then they get so hot the plasterboard scorches and crumbles and the light falls down fom the ceiling. How it did not catch fire beats me.

 

My honest opinion is only fit them in a warm roof.

[PeterW]

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

All downlights need to have free space above them. That means removing a section of insulation.

 

Thats not strictly true as some manufactures such as Enlite allow for insulation over theirs but they are the exception rather than the rule. The E8 can be covered by up to 300mm of fibre insulation. 

 

http://enlitelighting.com/gb/ProductDetail/EN-DE8CX

 

Enlite have also brought out a colour switchable downlight so you can swap from warm to cool white at point of fitting. They also have a 3 year warranty and replaceable bezels so are pretty flexible in what they look like.  

 

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

So what are your thoughts on the downlighter hoods, not the intrumicent ones but the boxes that allow insulation to be placed directly over the top. 

 

As the price of them is shocking

can I make up some boxes using plasterboard, I only need 4 so think I can knock them up in half an hour. 

 

[Declan52]

Or use these.

http://www.diy.com/departments/round-terracotta-pot-h170mm-dia210mm/925981_BQ.prd?icamp=recs&rrec=true

I have used them in my last house and my new build to cover all the downlights. Cut a notch out for the cable and silicone it to the plasterboard. If the pot has drainage holes in the bottom then another dab of silicone sorts that out. It's a 2 min job for each light.

[Russell griffiths]

I had heard of the plant pot thing but was concerned it may look a bit bodgy if we ever have a survey done or something similar. 

[Jeremy Harris]

The plant pots should be fine.  How many downlighters are still likely to be using very hot halogen bulbs?  We have a few, but they all have LEDs, and they just run a bit warm, rather than hot.  They need a space behind so any insulation isn't directly touching the fitting, but seem to work fine in the larger can-type fittings, that are close to being sealed anyway.

[ProDave]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The plant pots should be fine.  How many downlighters are still likely to be using very hot halogen bulbs?  We have a few, but they all have LEDs, and they just run a bit warm, rather than hot.  They need a space behind so any insulation isn't directly touching the fitting, but seem to work fine in the larger can-type fittings, that are close to being sealed anyway.

The reason I will not fit a downlight with insulation above is I recently fitted some fire rated downlights with LED's. They probably would have been okay covered. But I went back a while later to do another job, and the LED's had been replaced with halogen GU10's "They were too dim"

[Russell griffiths]

Thanks for that. 

I can see @ProDave reasons, you never know what will happen after you have left a job. 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Thanks for that. 

I can see @ProDave reasons, you never know what will happen after you have left a job. 

 

Thats the benefit of the Enlite units - you can’t change the bulb as they are built in. I agree, I wouldn’t fit a standard downlight without a hood

[vfrdave]

On 08/10/2017 at 13:58, Declan52 said:

Or use these.

http://www.diy.com/departments/round-terracotta-pot-h170mm-dia210mm/925981_BQ.prd?icamp=recs&rrec=true

I have used them in my last house and my new build to cover all the downlights. Cut a notch out for the cable and silicone it to the plasterboard. If the pot has drainage holes in the bottom then another dab of silicone sorts that out. It's a 2 min job for each light.

This is my plan, how easy are they to notch a hole in and what is best way of doing it?

They strike me as quite brittle.

[Declan52]

1 hour ago, vfrdave said:

This is my plan, how easy are they to notch a hole in and what is best way of doing it?

They strike me as quite brittle.

It's a 2 sec job with a grinder. 

[Roundtuit]

I used Integral evofire downlights - a simple design with glass below the bulb - because I wanted the flexibility of choosing the bulb colour.  Where they penetrate into the cold loft I've fitted Thermahood covers from above and taped to the airtightness membrane, with insulation over the top.  Seems to do the job well.  I think we've got about 20, and no bulb failures so far (16 months in).

[Onoff]

20 minutes ago, Roundtuit said:

I used Integral evofire downlights - a simple design with glass below the bulb - because I wanted the flexibility of choosing the bulb colour.  Where they penetrate into the cold loft I've fitted Thermahood covers from above and taped to the airtightness membrane, with insulation over the top.  Seems to do the job well.  I think we've got about 20, and no bulb failures so far (16 months in).

 

I've done similar. Thermahood lip will be intumescent mastic sealed to the foil. Around the Thermahood I'll fill with expanding foam. Cable will come up in 20mm steel conduit.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Onoff