Gavin’s timber frame thread

[joe90]

IMO it’s not about you being a perfectionist it’s about workers being able to read and do their job properly (cowboys!!!!) get them to add/change them to the schedule.

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

the rawl bolt anchors hold 24kn

 

 

That is like suspending a very heavy car `(Landrover etc) every 600mm.  It is a lot of load  .

 

This is too technical and specific for me to say much on,

 

However, without doing any analysis I would simply say that you will not be needing 24kN resistance eat 600 centres.

 

I would go for '2' probably, but it isn't for me to say....and you will worry whenever the wind blows. especially as you say you are a perfectionist, so must make your own mind up.

 

So you should probably ask your SE immediately while telling your joiner to pause OR use the specified fixings.

[Gus Potter]

5 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

Just noticed my joiner has fixed the sole plate down with 7.5 x 120mm concrete screws at 400mm centres into my slab.

Gav.. You have a couple of choices..

 

Take the risk that you have built something that is not safe.. bad move.

 

OR

 

Pay your SE to come to site and sort it out. Then try and claw back the SE fee money from your builders.

 

My advice.. pay your SE and do things right and remediate if need be. If BC spot anything you'll have to pay anyway to get it fixed.

[dpmiller]

Are there big long hold-down straps as well?

[Jilly]

I know the feeling: my builders used the wrong strength blocks under the block and beam in my extension. Once I realised, I made them dismantle their work and use the correct ones, despite their protestations that it was ‘fine’. As with your error, I realised in good time, and the situation was recoverable. It’s frustrating on so many levels, but there are some things which you can let go and some things you can’t, (which is why I have wonky plastering).
On a windy site what you are describing would trigger my alarm bells.

[joe90]

8 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Pay your SE to come to site and sort it out.

Sorry Gus I disagree, TELL the builders to build as designed by the SE.

[Russell griffiths]

Who’s job was it to supply fixings

if you are supplying all materials then you should have had them on site

if it was your joiner then they have deviated from the approved plan so need to change them at their own cost. 
 

m8 raw bolts will be available in any merchants. 

[Gus Potter]

On 22/08/2024 at 10:41, joe90 said:

Sorry Gus I disagree, TELL the builders to build as designed by the SE.

Ok to disagree.

 

My own feeling is that it's worth while paying the SE for a visit. This achieves a number of things.

 

1/ It lets the builder know that you the Client are not alone.

 

2/ I can say that I can't remember the time when I went to inspect a job and found nothing wrong. Builders often swap materials, hangers, connections, nail types and don't follow the nailing schedule on TF. Then you have fire stopping, vapour barriers etc... long list

 

3/ When I go to site I also look at fit up and if everything looks ok for the next stages say.. the insulation, how are the drains looking and so on.

 

Now is the time to nip things in the bud. As a project goes on builders tend to come under more financial pressure as they like to get as much profit out the job early on. If they feel they have a weak Client it's human nature that they tend to let things slip as the project goes on.

 

Ok @joe90 I agree with you that you should tell the builder to get it right.. but sometimes the presence of an SE,  Architect or QS say can concentrate the mind..avoid later serious disputes.. especially if any visit is at short notice or unannounced.

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

It lets the builder know that you the Client are not alone.

also, the builder can realise that the SE is not unreasonable, and any future suggested change should be put forward , not done unilaterally.

This joiner may have used this product on many projects and 'know' that it is generally ok, but your project may have more uplift..

OR the SE doesn't know this product which might be ok or suits some projects but not all. Both / either can learn.

[joe90]

On 21/08/2024 at 20:00, gavztheouch said:

The fixing schedule calls for rawl bolt concrete anchors which are M8 x 120mm.

@gavztheouch, I took this to mean it was designed by an architect or SE? is this the case.?

 

@Gus Potter this is why I thought “another”SE” was not needed.

[gavztheouch]

We decided to go ahead and fix the bolt issue later if needed. The contractor also removed and reinserted some concrete screws to place shims under the sole plate. Concrete screws don't work as well after remover and reinsertion.

 

The latest frame saga is the window lintels not fitting under the head binder. This means the walls are not properly tied together. I haven't ordered the lintels yet as they have a long lead-time but until we redesign the walls and floor I don't know what to order.

 

 

This is really frustrating as I brought this issue up when I made my model.

 

 

[gavztheouch]

Im trying to think of ways to improve the wall to isoquick junction at the bottom of the wall. The wood fibre adds protection from water entering higher up the wall but when it reaches the Isoquick, if trapped behind the membrane there is a direct path into the sole plate. Thinking about adding a chamfer to the Isoquick to drop the external wood fibre down 10mm or so to create a ledge making it harder for the water to get in.

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

Im trying to think of ways to improve the wall to isoquick junction at the bottom of the wall.

We used a completely different way of cladding our timber frame on the Isoquick. We had to have a 50mm cavity between the rainscreen and external insulation. I think this drawing had a few minor tweaks before the work was done. The DPC was folded up and stapled to the 15mm OSB racking before the external insulation was fitted to ensure water couldn't reach the sole plate. Don't know if that's of any help.

 

[gavztheouch]

Thanks Gone west, I didn't think about the DPM, I think I still have that option available as I haven't cut the dpm back yet.

[gavztheouch]

Rim beam, Joists and Glulam arrived today. Can't wait to start building the floor.

 

[gavztheouch]

[gavztheouch]

Preparing the steel that will sit inside the floor assembly. Needed to metal screw a 5x2 piece of wood with a plywood packer to the top, drill some mounting holes and also cut to length.

[gavztheouch]

[gavztheouch]

 

One of the steels in position. We used my dad’s digger to lift the beam in position. Reckon it weights around 300kg

[JamesP]

I like this approach, was a very enjoyable (long) part of my build.

Last shot before Cedar cladding fixed.

[Iceverge]

On 01/09/2024 at 13:38, gavztheouch said:

Im trying to think of ways to improve the wall to isoquick junction at the bottom of the wall. The wood fibre adds protection from water entering higher up the wall but when it reaches the Isoquick, if trapped behind the membrane there is a direct path into the sole plate. Thinking about adding a chamfer to the Isoquick to drop the external wood fibre down 10mm or so to create a ledge making it harder for the water to get in.

 

 

Very Interesting build. 

 

I would avoid multi tooling anything. It's too slow and getting a very consistent cut would require too much attention. 

 

This would be my solution. 

 

Cut say a 300 mm strip of proclima and staple it to the racking board as shown in orange. 

 

Then run the breather membrane over the top as shown in blue to below the level of the orange. 

 

Tape the blue to the isoquick with an appropriate tape and primer. 

 

 

This will be a safe design if the tape fails, or the external membrane. 

 

 

However getting the external membrane and tape right is your primary objective..

[gavztheouch]

6 hours ago, Iceverge said:

 

 

Very Interesting build. 

 

I would avoid multi tooling anything. It's too slow and getting a very consistent cut would require too much attention. 

 

This would be my solution. 

 

Cut say a 300 mm strip of proclima and staple it to the racking board as shown in orange. 

 

Then run the breather membrane over the top as shown in blue to below the level of the orange. 

 

Tape the blue to the isoquick with an appropriate tape and primer. 

 

 

This will be a safe design if the tape fails, or the external membrane. 

 

 

However getting the external membrane and tape right is your primary objective..

This is why I love forums. This seems like a great idea to give extra protection incase of failure, I don't think I would have though about doing this.

 

Some other ideas I might incorporate would be to

 

1. staple the concrete DPM to the racking board to give an extra back dam.

2. On the lowest/bottom wood fibre board tuck external membrane inside the tongue and groove of the board. This means if any water makes its way under the membrane at the top it will never get past the last 600mm of membrane and boards. It means wasting a some membrane to achieve this (cutting standard width down to 800mm or soo. The alternative is to lap the membranes in the usual way by this would rely on the membrane being taped to the wood fibre for 50 years or so without failing.

 

Since in Scotland we normally have a brick cavity in front of our timber frames I think it worth thinking about ways we can engineer our walls to be more robust. 

 

 

[Iceverge]

2 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

staple the concrete DPM to the racking board to give an extra back dam

 

I'd be cautious about this. If any moisture was to run down between the woodfiber and membrane it would be directed into the house. I'd cut the DPM  back flush with the outsider of the sole plate. 

 

2 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

On the lowest/bottom wood fibre board tuck external membrane inside the tongue and groove of the board. This means if any water makes its way under the membrane at the top it will never get past the last 600mm of membrane and boards. It means wasting a some membrane to achieve this (cutting standard width down to 800mm or soo. The alternative is to lap the membranes in the usual way by this would rely on the membrane being taped to the wood fibre for 50 years or so without failing.

 

Since in Scotland we normally have a brick cavity in front of our timber frames I think it worth thinking about ways we can engineer our walls to be more robust. 

 

It would be difficult to build if you did this. You'd need to be putting the membrane up as you did the woodfiber. 

 

In general think always about allowing water to down and out. This might potentially create a pocket that would trap water against the membrane. 

 

Something else to consider is that the membrane and cladding may need to be replaced, it might be 100 years but it may need to happen. Ideally for the sake of whoever has to do this it should be removable without damaging the woodfiber. 

[gavztheouch]

Flooring started to go on today. I had to pre-insulate the floor round the edges where the wall sits on top as this will not be accessible later on. I used hemp insulation here as it was the closest to wood fiber I could get at short notice in the sizes I need

[gavztheouch]

Flooring is down. I used egger protect which has a coating on it to give 60 days protection. Unfortunately the joiners have used half the amount of foaming glue needed so the glue has not sealed the boards and already after a couple of days the edges have swollen. Pretty annoyed as the flooring is something you can’t really ever replace as it’s under the first floor wall and glued to the joists. Fingers crossed it emerges out the other side of 30 days getting the roof on in ok shape. 
 

The joiner said he knew how to fit it and he has done it many times. We discussed the importance of a seal on the boards so I felt comfortable I didn’t need to check the installation instructions to check how much glue we needed. In hindsight the only way I think to make sure it was done right would have been to check the installation instructions and then worked with them to make sure it was done right. Exhausting having to second guess everything.

Edited October 6 by gavztheouch