Adam2 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 To keep us from going to the offy too much we planned to have a large under-stairs area as a wine room and looking for any clever suggestions on how best to cool this. The area is approx 1.7m deep 2.5m wide and sloped ceiling going from about 2.5m down to 1m. We installed a lot of insulation in walls and ceiling and no UFH of course in that area. The back wall is an outside wall partially below ground and there is no direct sunlight externally or internally into this area. We plan on the front being triple glazed units in a wood frame with PIR installed in any cavities. Idea is to make the door as well sealed as possible so may need a small threshold to optimise this. Target temp will be ~15 degrees and max ambient temp in peak of summer will be about 26 degrees. It's OK if we break the target a little in a few days in the summer - though we plan to mitigate the internal heat with some external shading on the worst days. I'm expecting to use a split AC type unit but looking at "specialist" wine room coolers they get quite pricey, especially compared to regular AC units. Appreciate the specialist ones sometimes also control humidity which I may need to measure and implement some kind of different solution for if I find it is way off. I've seen simple solutions like this which may be too cheap - no idea. Though a single unit I guess is going to be a bit louder inside than a split unit. The internal part does not need to be pretty as can hide the front with a mesh cover and put in a cupboard. Appreciate thoughts on this - not sure what capacity unit I need, would regular AC units be able to maintain a 15 deg temp without working non-stop if not accessed too much? Anyone done something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 If the back wall is external ? North facing ? Could be as simple as a core drill, and an outside and inside bug grill. A second core drill and a humidity extractor. Simple, but might work, although might be too cool. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) Understairs would be a lovely place for https://www.spiralcellars.co.uk/ Skipping that is one of our recurring regrets, but then we sober up and remember a wine fridge and a few more kWh cost nothing compared to excavating another story. Edited October 4, 2023 by joth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Big Jimbo said: If the back wall is external ? North facing ? Could be as simple as a core drill, and an outside and inside bug grill. A second core drill and a humidity extractor. Simple, but might work, although might be too cool. Facing NW issue though is when outside temp is 20+ hence need to have some kind of chiller unit. The room is I reckon about 8m3 so pretty small. I guess a cheap AC unit could do this if the control unit goes down to 15 deg. Would want one that is pretty quiet inside and out though. Also not sure if need planning approval for one as have an ashp on other side of house already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted October 4, 2023 Author Share Posted October 4, 2023 2 hours ago, joth said: Understairs would be a lovely place for https://www.spiralcellars.co.uk/ Well I have the space so going down through 300 to 350mm reinforced concrete and our waterproof membrane gives me a bad feeling just writing about it 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Adam2 said: Facing NW issue though is when outside temp is 20+ hence need to have some kind of chiller unit. The room is I reckon about 8m3 so pretty small. I guess a cheap AC unit could do this if the control unit goes down to 15 deg. Would want one that is pretty quiet inside and out though. Also not sure if need planning approval for one as have an ashp on other side of house already.... Permitted development rights excludes and heat pump used for cooling, so you need planning permission even if this was your first and only heat pump. You'll need to leave it on 24/7. I don't know what the duty cycle is on a cheap a2a split unit, but I'm guessing you'll need to factor in replacing/repairing it more frequently than usual. Note the DIY install ones are hard to get anyone to work on (at least in my experience, I've spoken to 2 FGas engineers so far, and both gave me the silent treatment after they found it's R290) In winter, it'd be preferrable to have the "outdoor" unit vent into the house, so the removed heat is heating up the rest of the house. Or just turn it off and blow cold air directly in from outside per BJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) https://www.nationalheatershops.co.uk/p/powrmatic-airco290-packaged-heat-pump-air-conditioner/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp&sc_intid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwvfmoBhAwEiwAG2tqzOigC0BdWiKss7-4CEd4t84cnJhyveYsY0mp-DBeeY0WRn6ibre-vxoCZzIQAvD_BwE No outdoor unit, so not a planning concern. Edited October 5, 2023 by JohnMo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 I saw (maybe on bh) a simple ashp that was a single box located indoors. 1 pipe in, one pipe out. Primitive but wouldn't have to work hard in your circumstances. Then I'd insulate the inside surfaces but perhaps leave the outside wall plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, JohnMo said: https://www.nationalheatershops.co.uk/p/powrmatic-airco290-packaged-heat-pump-air-conditioner/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp&sc_intid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwvfmoBhAwEiwAG2tqzOigC0BdWiKss7-4CEd4t84cnJhyveYsY0mp-DBeeY0WRn6ibre-vxoCZzIQAvD_BwE No outdoor unit, so not a planning concern. Nice - could be great, see they have a few options to consider and some v quiet. Min temp is 17 or 18 on ones I looked at but if they can maintain that think I'd go with the easier install as that temp should be sufficient for my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Thought I was dreaming … “ A wine room “ - heaven does exist on earth . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 I see people in shop doorways at night, their cans of drink seem to be at just the right temperature for drinking, well judging by the number of empty cans anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: I see people in shop doorways at night, their cans of drink seem to be at just the right temperature for drinking, well judging by the number of empty cans anyway. So you could play statically and say beer and wine at outside temperature is ideal. Or you could say they are (or want to be) drunk and just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: drunk and just don't care. You talking about me. I just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: So you could play statically and say beer and wine at outside temperature is ideal. Or you could say they are (or want to be) drunk and just don't care. Excuse me ! . Unlike beer you don’t drink wine to get drunk . Wine is a biblical gift to find deeper meaning in oneself and save humanity . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pocster said: Unlike beer you don’t drink wine to get drunk . Thought it was drunk to make you smell like a serious yeast infection. Isn't @Adsibob our wine expert. I only know about the whine from my car engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 17 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Thought it was drunk to make you smell like a serious yeast infection. Isn't @Adsibob our wine expert. I only know about the whine from my car engine. I like my wine, and I like my wine fridge. But I’m not sure that makes me an expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) Thanks for the additional valuable comments 🙂 Yes @Pocster one day the room will exist, complete with lovely contents, maybe if in time also an iberico leg for crimbo - iris recognition, if you're too drink maybe you'll get blocked 🙂 Edited October 6, 2023 by Adam2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, Adam2 said: an iberico leg Doesn't need to be chilled. Unopened the fat and salt preserve it indefinitely. Once started it is just drying of the cut surface that is the slightest issue. Note the standard picture in a Spanish bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Adam2 said: Thanks for the additional valuable comments 🙂 Yes @Pocster one day the room will exist, complete with lovely contents, maybe if in time also an iberico leg for crimbo - iris recognition, if you're too drink maybe you'll get blocked 🙂 I’ll wait patiently for my invite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2 Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, saveasteading said: Doesn't need to be chilled Our dog is quite excited by ham at Christmas + my daughter will need locking away from it 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 Currently on sale in spanish Aldi at from €30 for a leg, up to €60. Can be hundreds for special stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) You’ve got me wanting one now .. that’s the ham, not a cool room Edited October 6, 2023 by markc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 20 hours ago, Pocster said: Unlike beer you don’t drink wine to get drunk Erm...I do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 40 minutes ago, markc said: You’ve got me wanting one now .. that’s the ham, not a cool room Ham Smith! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Onoff said: Ham Smith! I knew his ‘ wine room ‘ would turn into a ‘whine room ‘ aka sex dungeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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