Fence adjacent to highway

[Barking99]

Good evening all

 

I recently had planning permission refused for a 1.7m fence next to a highway.
My house is a corner plot and it is the back garden I have put a 1.7m fence around. I have planted hedging ( planted for a year) in front of the fence within my boundary and the fence will be hidden within a year or two. The hedge not the fence is adjacent to the highway. Then a 2 metres grass verge and then footpath.

 

I cannot understand the reasoning for the refusal (visual amenity) as you won’t see the fence given time. So surely this can’t be justified. Nobody objected to the fence.

 

If the hedge was fully grown and denser and then I put up the fence would I of needed planning permission? 

We are going to appeal but any thoughts would be greatly appreciated 

Thanks

 

 

[ProDave]

Did you apply for PP or is the result of someone noticing your fence erected without PP.

 

If you lose, you could always reduce the fence to 1.0M (permitted development) and just let the hedge grow.

[JohnMo]

The restrictions are normally in place due to visibility of traffic. We had a corner plot quite a few years ago, and we're explicitly banned from installing any fence of any kind by a road junction.

 

You say you are on a corner plot, is there a road junction nearby or do you drive your car out of the plot on to the road?

[Barking99]

Thanks for replies. No there is no visibility issues. Highways had no problem with it.

 

“The proposal would be considered to cause significantly detrimental harm to the visual amenity of the host dwelling and the character of the wider area. The fence is located in a prominent position on the corner using a harsh material that creates a stark appearance and would not be considered complementary to the wider streetscene. “

 

The hedge has been planted for less than a year and when fully grown and denser you won’t even see the fence from the road. So I don’t see why they can refuse it for the reason they are giving.

 

Im not overly stressed about it as I can reduce the fence down to a metre which at end of the day would probably look better for the outlook from house to garden.
But at the moment I would like privacy and security until the hedge has matured.
And I think the planners are wrong in their reason for refusal. 
 

 

 

 

 

[joe90]

I think the planners just don’t like the harsh look of the fence, yes it’s mad that a hedge just as tall does  not need planning but then again a hedge is not “harsh”, i would go for appeal ( I did and won) and if nothing else it delays the outcome and more time for the hedge to grow (get a hosepipe on it 😇).

[Barking99]

Yes I agree we were always aware that the fence was harsh until the hedge had matured. Surely they should take into consideration the fact it is short term. 
 

We had the same problem a year ago where they refused permission for us to build a garage. We went to appeal and won.
The appeal inspector said that their decision to refuse because we hadn’t put a case why we needed a garage wasn’t a reason to refuse.
I mean why does anyone need a garage?? This is what we are up against! 

[Bonner]

Having travelled in many countries that don’t have any apparent planning control, I do support the system. On the other hand, I support the reasonable right to do what I want with my own property (sounds like I am sitting on the fence!). In this case the planners think it’s harsh, you agree and neighbours and passers-by probably do too … 

The hedge will form a soft boundary which everybody thinks is acceptable. However there is no guarantee that hedge will be there in a years time from the planners perspective. Then the street will be left with a hard boundary … which you could paint bright pink.

[Barking99]

I agree but one of the conditions in the pp is there has to be a hedge there.

I’m sure a certain retired person from the parish council would inform them otherwise!

My argument is that why will it be harsh when you will be unable to see in due course. There is no logic in her reason for refusal.

Yes in my reply to the case officer I did say I could reduce it to 1m and paint it pink and purple.

I also asked her the question whether I would have still had to apply for pp if the hedge was fully established and then I put the fence up.

I just feel it is a very grey area.

[Temp]

15 hours ago, Barking99 said:

The hedge not the fence is adjacent to the highway. Then a 2 metres grass verge and then footpath.

 

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/housing-property-and-neighbours/1402955-fencing-adjacent-to-a-highway-rules

 

Quote

 

As you can see, there is no mention what constitues ' adjacent to a highway '. The generally accepted rule for permitted development is;

 

Fence within 1 metre of the Highway / Path next to highway should be under 1 metre tall.

Fence more than 1 metre away from the Highway / Path next to highway can be up to 2 metres tall.

 

However this is not set in stone. In the case of Simmonds v SSE and Rochdale MDC [1981] it was held that a fence higher than one metre and less than one metre from a footway to a highway did abut the highway. In that case the fence was set back from the site boundary and pavement by just over 1m. So that is generally accepted but the local planning officers have different views on ' adjacent to a highway' and take into account the street scene, access roads and driveways.

 

 

It continues with a case where a fence more than 2m away from the Highway was considered adjacent to it.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Temp

[Barking99]

But it is the hedge that is next to the highway screening the fence behind it. The fence will not be seen in a years  time. 

The fence was set back from the boundary to plant the hedge also within our boundary.

 

My argument their reason for refusing PP because of visual amenity doesn’t stand up as the fence will be screened by the hedge.

[DevilDamo]

But you do not require Planning for a hedge and nor can the LPA enforce its retention. If you were to offer to plant trees and have TPO’s on them, then that’s slightly different. But it’s also an avenue that could cause you more issues in the future.

[Barking99]

We self built the house and part of the  landscaping conditions on that PP were to replace the overgrown poor condition hedge that was previously there with a native hedge. So there are conditions there that a hedge has to be retained.

[ProDave]

Have you worked out which nosy neighbour reported your fence?

 

If you loose your appeal I would go with your suggestion of a 1M fence painted in vulgar colours.

[Big Jimbo]

There was a case, not that long ago, but i can't find the details. The planning inspector stood on the public highway, stretched out his arm, and could not touch the fence. He ruled that therefore the fence was not adjacent to the highway.  His opinion was "what was considered adjacent" (how far back was the fence). It would be worth finding that appeal if you can.

[Barking99]

I know it’s ridiculous that I could probably do it.

No wasn’t a neighbour. Retired parish councillor! But it just takes one to alert the planning department and they have to act on it.
We haven’t had any objections as you would have to be blind to not see the hedge will screen the fence in due time. 
But then again the planning officer hasn’t taken this into account.

 

[Barking99]

This is the reason for refusal:-

The proposal would be considered to cause significantly detrimental harm to the visual amenity of the host dwelling and the character of the wider area. The fence is located in a prominent position on the corner using a harsh material that creates a stark appearance and would not be considered complementary to the wider streetscene.

[Barking99]

But I have put an evergreen/semi evergreen hedge in front of it so the fence won’t be seen. So how can they refuse it on this basis. 

[S2D2]

As others have said planning don't consider the hedge which can be removed on a whim.

 

Make it PD, which you've said you would prefer the look of, and spend your energy elsewhere.

[Barking99]

No it can’t be removed on a whim as it is in the soft landscaping planning conditions for PP on the housebuild

[TonyT]

Do Nothing apart from feed the hedge with fertiliser/ feed.

 

[S2D2]

6 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

No it can’t be removed on a whim as it is in the soft landscaping planning conditions for PP on the housebuild

What height is specified and how did you satisfy the condition if your hedge won't reach that height for a few years?

[Barking99]

The soft landscaping details submitted on Drawing Ref 07 are acceptable in relation to Plot 1 only. The Condition is hereby discharged, subject that the agreed details are complied with in perpetuity.

 

so the hedge that they passed on the planning condition has to remain in perpetuity 

 

I think the planners are wrong in refusing the fence for the reason they have given. So why should I just accept it.

 

[S2D2]

If a height was specified such that the fence would be hidden, fair argument. But if not, I don't think the planners are being unreasonable by considering something which is our could become (without breaching a planning condition) visible.

 

If you still don't agree, then appeal, as is your right. Only you can decide if it's worth the time and effort.

[Barking99]

I disagree.
There is no height specification for the hedge. But our planning application was for 1.7 fence with hedge in front to screen it( this is our back garden). 
The planning officer could approve with condition that hedge must totally screen the fence if need be. 
 

 

 

 Prior to first occupation or commencement of use a full schedule of all soft landscape works shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority. The schedule shall include, planting plans, a written specification; schedules of plants noting species, plant sizes, proposed numbers/densities; and a detailed implementation programme. It shall also indicate all existing trees and hedgerows on the land and details of any to be retained. The works shall be carried out in accordance with the approved details prior to the end of the first planting season following occupation of the development. If within a period of five years from the date of the planting, or replacement planting, any tree or plant (including retained existing trees/hedgerows) is removed, uprooted or destroyed or dies, another tree or plant of the same species and size as that originally planted shall be planted at the same place, unless the Local Planning Authority gives its written consent to any

 

The h

[Mr Punter]

5 hours ago, Barking99 said:

The fence will not be seen in a years  time

 

If you submit your appeal near to the 6 month deadline it will probably be over a year until the Planning Inspector sees it.