Heat Pumps: What They Really Mean For You - BBC1 8pm today

[MAB]

Heat Pumps: What They Really Mean For You - BBC1 - 01/08/2023 - 8pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fzltvd

 

"How we heat our homes is set to radically change as the government phases out gas boilers. But can changing the technology we use every day help us reduce greenhouse gases and stop climate change? BBC climate editor Justin Rowlatt, presenter Michelle Ackerley and environment scientist Dr Tara Shine investigate if it’s possible to heat our homes by replacing oil and gas boilers with new green alternatives, whether the country is ready to build an entirely low-carbon electricity network, and if we can do it all before the government’s net zero target of 2050.

 

Justin heads to Salford to explore a futuristic house used to test new home heating technologies in extreme conditions. From minus 12 degrees to the comfort of central heating, he gets to grips with heat pumps, a technology the government is betting on. In the loft, Justin clambers around to see how well our homes need to be insulated.

 

Michelle gets an insight into how heat pumps are installed and what it means for a family in Reading. She questions the installation costs and if the government grant is enough to help families transition from gas boilers to heat pumps. With a government target of 2035 for all the UK’s electricity to be generated from renewable and low carbon sources, Michelle meets a community centre near Bristol who have built the UK’s largest wind turbine. Then, she heads underground to find out how the electricity grid needs transforming to deliver enough power for the UK’s homes and businesses.

 

Tara meets the gas company promoting hydrogen as a solution to home heating, and visits residents in Whitby in Ellesmere Port, who were going to be part of a hydrogen trial but have big concerns about costs and safety. She investigates how oil companies are planning to produce hydrogen and if it’s a feasible option. Tara explores cracks in the core of Heysham Nuclear Power station in Lancashire to understand what it means for the lifespan of the plant, visits Hinkley Point C to understand the complexities of building new nuclear power stations, and asks if technology from nuclear submarines could be a solution."

[ProDave]

It will be interesting if they analyse the present costs of a heat pump install to see if they are reasonable.  Somehow I doubt they will.

[saveasteading]

A precis here:

 

BBC News - The truth about heat pumps and the power needed to run them
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66359093

[BotusBuild]

I started reading the article this morning and stopped as soon as they stated that all heat pumps provide air conditioning in the summer. Just checked, and that part of the article has been removed 🙂

 

So much for accurate journalism on this topic.

 

There are other things in the article (a regurgitation of an earlier article by the way) that still wrankle with me; the "larger radiators" comment without proper explanation, and the number of trained installers - like you HAVE to use a trained installer (which you do for some I admit)

 

I shall not be watching this program so as to protect my blood pressure 🙂 

[SteamyTea]

Yesterday I posted up a link to PM and how Lord Haughty said that ASHP don't work.

Well Evan Davis was on the WatO saying they had so many calls they are doing a bit more on it tonight.

So Radio 4 at 5PM.

 

1 hour ago, BotusBuild said:

shall not be watching this program so as to protect my blood pressure

Listen to Ed Reardon instead.

Pippa Hayward is on it.

Edited August 1, 2023 by SteamyTea

[ProDave]

They are featuring an £18,000 heat pump install.  They say the heat pump costs about £4000 and "takes a team of 6 over a week to install"

 

So lets say 18 man days?  and lets say £400 per day each, that's £7200 labour.

 

Lets say £1500 for new hot water tank and controls, and £2000 for new radiators (that one is a pure guess)

 

I still only get to £14700

[JohnMo]

50 minutes ago, ProDave said:

takes a team of 6 over a week to install"

 

So lets say 18 man days?

18 man days is just 3 days for a team of six.

 

5 days x 6 men is 30 man days. £400 per day, so £12k labour, not £7.2k.

[billt]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

 £2000 for new radiators (that one is a pure guess)

 

I'm replacing most of my radiators (13), it's going to cost over £6,000. Admittedly one is very expensive as I need a very high output vertical radiator for a difficult room, but a 600mmx2000mm k3 is £570.

[Big Jimbo]

I watched it and thought it was just the usual, glossy, made for T.V crap. Explained very little if anything.

[Post and beam]

Why would you need to replace all of your radiators in the circumstance where they were regarded as too small for your new heat pump. Surely some of the larger ones would work perfectly well in rooms that previously had small radaitors.

[MikeSharp01]

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

It will be interesting if they analyse the present costs of a heat pump install to see if they are reasonable.  Somehow I doubt they will.

They sort of did.

[billt]

11 hours ago, Post and beam said:

Why would you need to replace all of your radiators in the circumstance where they were regarded as too small for your new heat pump. Surely some of the larger ones would work perfectly well in rooms that previously had small radaitors.

 

The original radiators must be getting on for 30 years old, it doesn't make sense to put old radiators into what is, in effect, a new system. None of the old radiators are large enough or the right shape to be usable in the redesigned system. It's designed for a 35C flow temperature, so small single panel radiators won't do.

 

Apart from that the previous owners weren't very good at decorating so there are various rough paint splashes as well as the odd rust stain.

[Post and beam]

Sorry dude, i did not mean you specifically when i said 'you' . I just meant why throw out all of the old radiators in any given scenario where fitting larger radiators to suit a HP  is deemed necessary.

Apologies for the confusion.

[HughF]

It never makes sense to re-use old radiators, unless they are already type22s and they're less than 3 yrs old.

 

Most rooms can manage just fine with a 600x1200 type22, and they're nearly always on special at screwfix.

[JohnMo]

15 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

I watched it and thought it was just the usual, glossy, made for T.V crap. Explained very little if anything

For a program hyped as about heat pump, most the program they spoke about the decades it takes to get nuclear and onshore wind on line.

 

If the whole program was about heat pumps and the detail, that for me would have been good, but for most of the public, they would turn over and watch something more interesting to them.

 

Alway a difficult balance act, too much detail people turn off, to little, it's sh*te.

[ProDave]

It really did do a good job of showing just how hopeless the present plan is.

 

No hope of getting enough heat pumps installed and houses insulation upgraded.

No hope of getting enough green energy built in time and the electricity grid upgraded to cope.

No hope of getting enough new nuclear built on time.

No hope of Hydrogen ever being a viable green energy source.

 

The spokesperson they kept putting these points to had no answer other than waffle and pretend all was okay.

[joth]

17 hours ago, JohnMo said:

18 man days is just 3 days for a team of six.

 

5 days x 6 men is 30 man days. £400 per day, so £12k labour, not £7.2k.

 

 

In addition to this, a company is entitled to charge some profit and overhead. They have to design the system, cover office staff, cover support & warranty call outs etc. 8% OH&P on the materials is not atypical 

 

Racks up though doesn't it. 6 men for over a week is a lot. Presume that's replacing rads and everything 

[ProDave]

6 minutes ago, joth said:

Racks up though doesn't it. 6 men for over a week is a lot. Presume that's replacing rads and everything 

This of course show the "replace gas boilers with a heat pump" is NOT a simple swap in the majority of cases.  I think most of us new that, but it is not the impression being given to the general public.