Indecision as to which way forward?

[flanagaj]

Hi All.   

 

So my wife and I have sold our house in Dorset and we are ear marked to purchase a property near Newbury (cul de-sac), but we are now reconsidering everything and wondering whether now is a good time to instead go into rented and try and find that elusive plot that has always evaded us.  We have 350k equity for a plot and so long as it's within 1 hour of London via train we are pretty flexible regarding the location.    I am quite fortunate that I am very practical and cut the roof, made the kitchen, plumbed and fitted bathrooms .... in out current property, so am hoping that we could save a fair amount if we can do a self build.   My only concern at present, is whether more plots will come to market, or whether the market will simply just stagnate with people just sitting on plots until interest rates come down and normal service is resumed.

Just wondering how others are perceiving the market at the moment and whether it is a good or bad time to be considering a self build.

 

 

Thanks

[nod]

Normally I’d agree interest rates rising House prices falling But this time is different Rents are rocketing and private landlords are offloading there properties So it would depend on you getting somewhere to rent at a reasonable price 

There still a high demand for plots 

[Alan Ambrose]

Swings and roundabouts - materials are expensive but coming down in price a bit, contractors are getting a bit more reasonable and more available.

 

Maybe the major factor is availability of good plots in the area you have in mind. It can take an age to find the right plot, and then an age to get planning for the thing you want - anywhere from a year to say 5 years, depending.

 

Also, you have to balance the normal value of your time against the cost of contractors. It's unlikely you will have enough time and energy to make much of a difference if you have a full time job at the same time.

 

Some basic calcs may help you decide - typical cost of plot in your area plus, say, £1.5 - 2.5K per m^2 build cost, depending. Are you in the right ballpark?

[flanagaj]

1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Swings and roundabouts - materials are expensive but coming down in price a bit, contractors are getting a bit more reasonable and more available.

 

Maybe the major factor is availability of good plots in the area you have in mind. It can take an age to find the right plot, and then an age to get planning for the thing you want - anywhere from a year to say 5 years, depending.

 

Also, you have to balance the normal value of your time against the cost of contractors. It's unlikely you will have enough time and energy to make much of a difference if you have a full time job at the same time.

 

Some basic calcs may help you decide - typical cost of plot in your area plus, say, £1.5 - 2.5K per m^2 build cost, depending. Are you in the right ballpark?

I would like to know what figure / m2 you would be looking at if you were to literally move in after all first fix / plastering has been done.   We would literally move in as soon as I have fitted one bathroom and put a cheap kitchen in and then do the second fix interior work using the proceeds of my wages.
 

I would use a single builder for groundwork and up to plate height and then get individual trades for first fix roof ...  I am fortunate that my nephew is an electrician and my brother in law a roofer, so could maybe save in that regard.

[Dave Jones]

sounds like you have a plan. Hard to do a m2 figure until you have a plot and plans that can be QS'd. Flat site on good ground <<<< sloping site on clay for example.

[Papillon]

There are a lot of plots locked up in the nutrient neutrality issue, depending on where you are looking it might be an issue. 
 

North of London is fine until you hit Norfolk then it’s awful. 
East and West of London and it’s iffy.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> nutrient neutrality issue

 

Well that's a new one on me. Bats, newts, archaeology, contamination, heritage, flooding, SUDS, access, materials, sustainability, trees, ecology, design, overlooking, noise, solar gain, ventilation etc etc etc ... but nutrients ?

Edited July 16, 2023 by Alan Ambrose

[Temp]

16 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

>>> nutrient neutrality issue

 

Well that's a new one on me. Bats, newts, archaeology, contamination, heritage, flooding, SUDS, access, materials, sustainability, trees, ecology, design, overlooking, noise etc ... but nutrients ?

 

In areas that have got the issue sorted you have to buy "credits". This money goes to setting up wetlands to mitigate the effects of your poo etc. Not sure what the going rate is? £6,000? If you do a knock down and rebuild I guess you might not have to pay?

 

Oh and if the CIL is a thing in your area make sure you formally claim the self build exemption after getting PP or you loose it and become liable to pay it. In some cases you might even want life insurance because if you drop down dead you can't live in the house for the 3 years needed to keep the exemption.

 

Have we put you off yet 🙂

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Temp

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> In areas that have got the issue sorted you have to buy "credits". 

 

Is that related to RAMS 'Recreational Avoidance Mitigation Contribution Payment' or is that different?

 

 

>>> if you drop down dead you can't live in the house for the 3 years needed to keep the exemption.

 

I guess 'not your problem' at that point

[flanagaj]

On 16/07/2023 at 18:00, Papillon said:

There are a lot of plots locked up in the nutrient neutrality issue, depending on where you are looking it might be an issue. 
 

North of London is fine until you hit Norfolk then it’s awful. 
East and West of London and it’s iffy.

We viewed one yesterday that had this problem.  Have to use a Graf treatment plant solution as they don't want additional Nitrates being added to the River Test by connecting the house to the existing foul water system down the road..   The cost is about £3000 - £4000 for the plant.   

[Russell griffiths]

3 hours ago, flanagaj said:

We viewed one yesterday that had this problem.  Have to use a Graf treatment plant solution as they don't want additional Nitrates being added to the River Test by connecting the house to the existing foul water system down the road..   The cost is about £3000 - £4000 for the plant.   

Plus labour to install I had a quote of £17,000 all in. 
just another cost. 
not really a problem there isn’t a house within a couple of miles of me connected to mains drainage. 
it’s certainly not a deal breaker. 

[flanagaj]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Plus labour to install I had a quote of £17,000 all in. 

Ouch.  It looks like a simple case of digging a large hole and putting it in the ground.   How did they justify 17K given the units are 3-4k?

[Russell griffiths]

25 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

Ouch.  It looks like a simple case of digging a large hole and putting it in the ground.   How did they justify 17K given the units are 3-4k?

Not as simple as that, it’s actually a very big hole, so mid size excavator, lots of spoil to take away, gravel or concrete base, install tank, gravel or concrete surrounding. 
that’s just the tank, it then has to discharge somewhere, either a ditch or you need a drainage field. 
so loads more digging and drains and gravel. 
I did mine myself and I think the quotes I had were fair. 
good ground and a ditch to discharge to will remove a lot of cost. 

[Papillon]

Check whether you’re in an area with a solution available, most I’ve come across wouldn’t even accept treatment plants yet.

[saveasteading]

An hour from London? Plot with planning £450k. Plot with hope value £200k.

 

They usually don't have services.

 

London money keeps the prices high.

Locals have no chance.

 

Most are owned by big land owners who don't need the money,  so no negotiating.

 

Don't assume that self build is cheap. Your plan looks OK, but there is probably a lot that you don't know you don't know...yet.

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, flanagaj said:

.  It looks like a simple case of digging a large hole and putting it in the ground.   How did they justify 17K given the units are 3-4k?

As @Russell griffithssays.

I know from discussing with digger driver/ some end users that they are not usually done properly. This isn't necessarily wilful bad work but through not understanding why the design detail matters.

The bco doesn't usually get closely involved either. 

So I believe that 3/4 are installed incorrectly, (and so won't digest properly)  and outfall to much undersized soakaways instead of drainage fields.

Could be smelly.

 

Hence £7k for a bodge and £17k properly.

With a ditch adjacent the proper job cost can reduce.

 

[Russdl]

On 16/07/2023 at 13:17, flanagaj said:

We would literally move in as soon as I have fitted one bathroom and put a cheap kitchen in and then do the second fix interior work

Depending on how long it takes you to finish I think moving in like that could potentially affect your VAT reclaim so check that out carefully as well. 

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Russdl said:

potentially affect your VAT

Goof point. So don't move in, just camp in it.

Well worth checking out the way your LA deals with "occupation".

[Papillon]

19 hours ago, saveasteading said:

An hour from London? Plot with planning £450k. Plot with hope value £200k.

 

They usually don't have services.

 

London money keeps the prices high.

Locals have no chance.

 

Most are owned by big land owners who don't need the money,  so no negotiating.

 

Don't assume that self build is cheap. Your plan looks OK, but there is probably a lot that you don't know you don't know...yet.

 

Good points. 
 

Maybe look at Custom Build, plots are serviced, not cheap or anything but it’s a little more organised.
There are still plots at Bicester (Graven Hill), depends where in london you work but 1.5hrs from London isn’t bad and there’s a train too so might be an hour even.

 

[Thorfun]

On 23/07/2023 at 08:32, flanagaj said:

The cost is about £3000 - £4000 for the plant.

I paid £2300 for a Graf one2clean a year ago. if they're now £4k I got a bargain!